Alonzo Verge: From goat to GOAT?

[Norm Peterson]

To summarize what people were saying earlier in the season: He's talented but selfish. You can tell he cares and at least he's trying, but he keeps on trying to go 1-on-5 to get to the rim and he's just not efficient enough to beat our opponents by himself. Some thought he was the most frustrating player to watch; others thought he was the scapegoat for our struggles because he had the ball in his hands the most, and he deserved credit for effort and talent, like he was the one guy who was giving his all on every play.

 

Fast forward through a massively disappointing middle of the season to a surprisingly successful and energizing end, and Alonzo Verge is the straw the stirs the drink. I mean, we don't pull off any of those dubs without him. His quickness in change-of-direction situations is otherworldly. He has an uncanny ability to bank in circus shot layups. And he's beginning to leverage those around him better and better, particularly over the last 4 or 5 games. With the guys he has around him, he makes us a tough out.

 

Our last road win against a top-10 team was against Michigan St under Tim Miles. The last time we had a dominating performance by a point guard against a top-10 team in a win on the road was ... gasp ... Jack Moore knocking off #1 Missouri in Columbia. In 1982.

 

Yeah. That's right. I just compared Alonzo Verge to Jack Moore. Deal with it.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Norm Peterson

[Norm Peterson]

The question mark at the end of the thread title was deliberate. He's not the GOAT yet. But if this team miraculously manages to win the next five (which is what Trey Mac *repeatedly* talked about in his IG video) and get into the post-season, it'll be because of Verge. And then he will definitely belong in that GOAT discussion.

[hhcmatt]

It was just 3 games ago that someone on the staff mentioned that we were 'in a pinch' with Banton going to the NBA.  The only three ball handlers on the team are Verge, Webster, and Trey. I think Verge is mostly the same player he's been this entire time except with a better understanding of what we're trying to accomplish and better chemistry with teammates that has his play more consistent. 

 

We're looking at the potential of introducing 1-2 brand new ball handlers next year which might very well have us struggling to hit double digit wins again. When is the cycle going to end?

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

It was just 3 games ago that someone on the staff mentioned that we were 'in a pinch' with Banton going to the NBA.  The only three ball handlers on the team are Verge, Webster, and Trey. I think Verge is mostly the same player he's been this entire time except with a better understanding of what we're trying to accomplish and better chemistry with teammates that has his play more consistent. 

 

We're looking at the potential of introducing 1-2 brand new ball handlers next year which might very well have us struggling to hit double digit wins again. When is the cycle going to end?

 

This is an excellent point. We'd have been even more of a hopeless disaster without Verge than we were with him. We were lucky to pick him up. Even so, he's nowhere near GOAT discussion unless they go on a deep Big Ten tourney run.

 

And 2 weeks ago, I wouldn't even have contemplated the possibility they could go on a deep run, let alone win the thing. But any team in the league that can win 3 straight on the road, including two against ranked foes, can win the league tournament. I mean, even the best teams in the conference often don't win 3 in a row on the road against other teams also at the top of the conference.

 

And we just did that. And if we can do that, we can win the conference tournament. And we could also lose to Northwestern in the first game and spend the next several years imagining what might have been.

 

I'll hold out hope for the former unless or until it doesn't happen.

[hskr4life]

8 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

This is an excellent point. We'd have been even more of a hopeless disaster without Verge than we were with him. We were lucky to pick him up. Even so, he's nowhere near GOAT discussion unless they go on a deep Big Ten tourney run.

 

And 2 weeks ago, I wouldn't even have contemplated the possibility they could go on a deep run, let alone win the thing. But any team in the league that can win 3 straight on the road, including two against ranked foes, can win the league tournament. I mean, even the best teams in the conference often don't win 3 in a row on the road against other teams also at the top of the conference.

 

And we just did that. And if we can do that, we can win the conference tournament. And we could also lose to Northwestern in the first game and spend the next several years imagining what might have been.

 

I'll hold out hope for the former unless or until it doesn't happen.

The only thing working against this team is the time between games.  If we could play 2-3 one weekend and the other 2-3 the next weekend, I’d feel a lot better.  Jello legs against an Illinois team who’s only played 1 game is rough on anyone.

 

Our bench isn’t as deep as it was earlier in the year either unfortunately.

[uneblinstu]

No, he's not the GOAT. He's had a great stretch, but he struggled to figure out his role for almost 2/3 of the season. If he were a freshman or sophomore and had another couple of years to build off of this season, I think that would change the conversation. If he goes on a tear and they go on an improbably run this week, maybe it's one of the greatest stretches of all time, but I don't think you can consider him as one of the greats of the program.

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

It was just 3 games ago that someone on the staff mentioned that we were 'in a pinch' with Banton going to the NBA.  The only three ball handlers on the team are Verge, Webster, and Trey. I think Verge is mostly the same player he's been this entire time except with a better understanding of what we're trying to accomplish and better chemistry with teammates that has his play more consistent. 

 

We're looking at the potential of introducing 1-2 brand new ball handlers next year which might very well have us struggling to hit double digit wins again. When is the cycle going to end?

If you bring in a player that has a background of being a point guard, especially one in an high tempo offense, that learning curve should be lessened. But yes, I'd LOVE to see them recruit a long term PG. Maybe Lloyd or McPherson could learn it and have several years to really cement the role, but finding Hoiberg's Glynn Watson would be a really nice development for the program.

[royalfan]

Took the offense getting more structured to get the proper spacing to create the lanes.  Frustrating took the staff so long to figure it out.  They starting getting more structured on offense about the same time they started communicating and trying on defense.  I wonder whose coaching roles elevated and whose shrunk?  Certainly wasn’t a good look for doc at end of bench with body pointed away from rest of team entire game with little to no emotion.  Either way, I was always on team Verge and always claimed our upside with him is light years better than without.  Amazing that people wanted him out if mix completely.  We were going to be bad with it without the way the defense was structured and offense having no structure.  Verge was a victim as he ended up having to dribble way too much.  

[uneblinstu]

17 minutes ago, royalfan said:

Amazing that people wanted him out if mix completely.  

Is it really that hard to believe? He was struggling to make the transition, making weird decisions on the court, not really making up for on defense and after a ton of build up and expectations, they are losing game after game and he was at the center of a lot of it. It seems natural to me that people would want him to sit.

[MontanaHusker]

I’ll be honest, I was one of the few who wanted him to take a seat for a while. His decisions were questionable. He dribbled the ball off his shoe one too many times. However I have totally eaten my words the last few weeks. Seems like something has clicked with the team and he is thriving now. Hope it continues this week. Like Trey said, 5 more! 

[dustystehl]

I've thought Verge was our best player for most of the year. Yes, some of his decisions were questionable and frustrating, but it was that same way with every other player on the roster.

 

I'm nervous to play Iowa. I just don't know if we can beat them. But it's tough to beat a team three times, and the three teams in front of us each beat us twice already this year.

 

Our guys are hungry and are peaking at the right time. And hey, those 30 for 30 stories don't write themselves!

[Vinny]

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

We're looking at the potential of introducing 1-2 brand new ball handlers next year which might very well have us struggling to hit double digit wins again. When is the cycle going to end?

Is Denim going to be expected to be a primary ball handler? Could McPherson make the jump to the rotation?  I know neither of them are on the court this season, but they’re getting more time to get familiar with the system than the guards that came before them.

[HuscurAdam]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I mean, even the best teams in the conference often don't win 3 in a row on the road against other teams also at the top of the conference.

 

And we just did that. And if we can do that, we can win the conference tournament. And we could also lose to Northwestern in the first game and spend the next several years imagining what might have been.

 

Speaking of what might have been, imagine if we brought in Verge out of Juco instead of Cam Mack.  He could have gotten his growing pains out of the way during the first year rebuild. Who knows where he could have led this team. Only question is whether he would have made the jump to the NBA after last year. The history of Nebrasketball always sees to come back to "what if."

[49r]

1 hour ago, dustystehl said:

it's tough to beat a team three times

 

It's considerably easier, though, when that team is Nebraska.

[Fullbacksympathy]

2 hours ago, Vinny said:

Is Denim going to be expected to be a primary ball handler? Could McPherson make the jump to the rotation?  I know neither of them are on the court this season, but they’re getting more time to get familiar with the system than the guards that came before them.

 

We're going to have several guys who can handle it as well as Trey or Bryce next year, but no true PG as of yet.  We'll need a transfer or guarantee Trey the spot so he'll return and work on nothing but handles in the offseason.  I think we'll take a step back from where we are now offensively but take a step forward with our defense.  

[hugh42]

3 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Is it really that hard to believe? He was struggling to make the transition, making weird decisions on the court, not really making up for on defense and after a ton of build up and expectations, they are losing game after game and he was at the center of a lot of it. It seems natural to me that people would want him to sit.

 

Despite his struggles Verge has been far and away our best ball handler the entire season and it's not even close. So from this perspective, yes.

[hugh42]

2 hours ago, Vinny said:

Is Denim going to be expected to be a primary ball handler? Could McPherson make the jump to the rotation?  I know neither of them are on the court this season, but they’re getting more time to get familiar with the system than the guards that came before them.

 

I can't recall where I read it, but ball handling is something that Denim apparently needs to work on, plus he's more of a wing. McPherson appears to be in line to play the point going forward.

[Vinny]

1 hour ago, hugh42 said:

 

I can't recall where I read it, but ball handling is something that Denim apparently needs to work on, plus he's more of a wing. McPherson appears to be in line to play the point going forward.

I wonder if that’s because they’re expecting him to do more of it though. He was listed as a small forward as a recruit and a guard on the team site.

[Handy Johnson]

He looks a WHOLE lot better when the players he’s passing it to are knocking down shots…. But without him we would have really been stuck. 

[basketballjones]

I’m convinced 75% of the Verge hate was leftover subconscious crap related to Devrell Biggs and Teddy Allen. 
 

Dude has bball flaws. That’s it. Never was a bad teammate, no disciplinary issues, clearly cared, etc… 

 

Also don’t feel like this season goes near as bad as it has if Wilhelm and Trey don’t go down. And half

the Verge hate never happens. 

[49r]

I’m convinced 75% of the Verge hate was leftover subconscious crap related to Devrell Biggs and Teddy Allen. 
 
Dude has bball flaws. That’s it. Never was a bad teammate, no disciplinary issues, clearly cared, etc… 
 
Also don’t feel like this season goes near as bad as it has if Wilhelm and Trey don’t go down. And half
the Verge hate never happens. 

Completely agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AuroranHusker]

Verge was in a tough spot, the staff hyped him up then Zo struggled to pick up the nuances that Freddy needs his PG to deal with. It was a convergence of a ton of concepts that Zo wasn't 'on board' with, it seemed. His prior role was a lightning quick dude who could fill it up, well, that's nice if you have another distributor... then Trey went down for basically half the season, which is why Zo's role was not going particularly well & when the team's effort/resolve continues to wind up with a loss that also affects the entire team concept. It was a similar deal as to when Wilhelm went down, just as it seemed like he was gaining significant traction then W.B.'s season was cut short & the interior suffered as a result, so basically the season had run amok. It was a disaster, with no hope in sight. Believe me, I had to use every ounce of my being to make it to games during this stretch of the long winter. It sucked for fans, coaches, & players all.

 

And, regarding recruitment/retainment as a major item to note: Nebraska doesn't have the benefit of a 4-star-stacked roster like the upper echelon of the Big Ten are often blessed with, so any & all cracks in the foundation of Nebrasketball made a HUGE IMPACT on how the finished product was being displayed on game days -- it was as though the mantra that "losing is contagious" (recall Scott Frost saying as much in regard to NU football--and I totally agree with that harsh reality/assessment). Finally, once Trey's been back, fully healthy, and as a result #2's been kicking major ass locking up opponents, so it now stands to reason that -- in a different role than most of the season -- Zo (in a new flow offensively with Freddy/Loenser re-working of the O) is also able to kick some ass in his newfound distributing/play-making role with bucket-getters like Bryce & CJ spaced out better. The offensive flow dramatically improved while the chemistry improved, the effort improved, and end-result improved: the JOY was evident. Winning becomes contagious. So I agree: WHY NOT US?! LET'S WIN THE WHOLE DAMN THING, a la Kemba Walker at UConn. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by AuroranHusker

[royalfan]

10 hours ago, dustystehl said:

I've thought Verge was our best player for most of the year. Yes, some of his decisions were questionable and frustrating, but it was that same way with every other player on the roster.

 

I'm nervous to play Iowa. I just don't know if we can beat them. But it's tough to beat a team three times, and the three teams in front of us each beat us twice already this year.

 

Our guys are hungry and are peaking at the right time. And hey, those 30 for 30 stories don't write themselves!

 

I would feel a lot better about our bracket if Iowa had beat Illinois.  We would reverse Rutgers and Iowa games if nothing else.  At the end of day have to beat them both anyway I guess.  

[royalfan]

11 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Is it really that hard to believe? He was struggling to make the transition, making weird decisions on the court, not really making up for on defense and after a ton of build up and expectations, they are losing game after game and he was at the center of a lot of it. It seems natural to me that people would want him to sit.

 

To me it was obvious our upside was higher.  I could also understand that our downside was lower.  But that matters less to me as we already were as low as it gets.   Getting booed a lot etc was not helping matters.  Pry not a coincidence he is playing better on the road.  Everything flipped when the offense became structured and ran a lot more sets.  I think Fred had way too much confidence in his players and then it took a while to fix it when he realized they needed to be reeled in.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by royalfan

[Norm Peterson]

Well, most definitely not GOAT. And not really goat, either. But closer to goat than GOAT.

[ConkTrifecta3]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:49 AM, royalfan said:

Took the offense getting more structured to get the proper spacing to create the lanes.  Frustrating took the staff so long to figure it out.  They starting getting more structured on offense about the same time they started communicating and trying on defense.  I wonder whose coaching roles elevated and whose shrunk?  Certainly wasn’t a good look for doc at end of bench with body pointed away from rest of team entire game with little to no emotion.  Either way, I was always on team Verge and always claimed our upside with him is light years better than without.  Amazing that people wanted him out if mix completely.  We were going to be bad with it without the way the defense was structured and offense having no structure.  Verge was a victim as he ended up having to dribble way too much.  

I dont think it was they didnt have it figured out, IMO just a stubbornness to change.  I think when you see the system work, i.e Colorado there is propensity to "play through it" and not second guess.  Obviously hind sight is 20/20.. but I think much like Frost- Fred came in thinking the Big 10 was going to adjust to him, and it just hasnt worked.