Shut Up Sipple! - Why Fred Should have at least 5 years

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

6 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

What examples? The outside consultant thing? That's all I see. Contract extension stuff? Or what? Am I taking crazy pills or missing a post here? 

The outside consultants is what I was speaking to. 

[hskr4life]

26 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

That seems like a pretty minimal issue. 

It’s minimal to remove or not allow something that they perceive was helping them win?  Isn’t that what you should want as an AD?  Regardless of if it was truly helping that much, mentally they thought it was.  Why not allow it?

 

It’s like if I gave my team a liquid and said “if you drink it, you’ll rarely miss.”  Even if it’s just Gatorade and the only thing it was really doing was affecting the mental part of the game… if we’re making shots you probably wouldn’t want to take it away no?

 

Special thanks Bugs Bunny and his “secret stuff” in Space Jam for helping me with the reference.

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

35 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

That seems like a pretty minimal issue. 

Ok, that’s fine to think that. I think whoever gave you the “direct knowledge” of Miles’ “demise” doesn’t know what the hell they're talking about. 

[hhcmatt]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:42 PM, Blackshirt83 said:

I will say that anyone who thinks keeping Fred and getting rid of Abdelsmath is the correct move - you are dead wrong. Abdelsmath is a great recruiter. He proved it not only at iowa state with Hoiberg but at st John's. He was the only recruiter at St. Johns.. He built their entire roster between and it's no accident that Mullin who had taken the Red Storm to their first tournament in 5 years went from being safe to bring fired within days after Abdelsmath took the Nebraska job..

 

Abdelsmath is one of the best recruiters in the country. He brings in the guys Hoiberg wants just like he did at isu and st john's. If anything you do whatever you have to to get Abdelsmath to stay and recruit for whoever replaces Hoiberg. 

 

Abdelsmath is the only one who actually does his job.  Hoiberg runs his program like a CEO. With each assistant having a specific job.

 

Abdelsmath is there to recruit 

Gates is there to run the backcourt 

Loesner is there to run the frontcourt

Doc is there to run the defense 

 

 

There have been criticizm of Doc but the big question Noone has asked (that I have seen) is what are Gates and Loesner doing?

 

Those are the guys that are supposed to be doing the accountability and effort stuff. On paper this should be one of the best assistant coaching staffs in the country. Why are they all performing significantly under what they are capable of doing? 

 

This isn't all on Hoiberg. He's the head coach and makes the big salary so in the end it does but the things we are most critical of? Those are things Gates and Loesner and Sadler should be doing.

 

Work it back the other way: what happens if this all was working and Matt A leaves because he got a job somewhere else? Why put ourselves into a position where guys are irreplaceable?

 

Gates and Loesner are both willing to recruit.  Get one more guy who can recruit and then you have 4 coaches who can recruit and coach instead of a bunch of silos. Being less than the sum of your parts can happen off the court too.

[HuskerFever]

4 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

https://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/steven-m-sipple-if-hoiberg-is-making-any-progress-at-all-we-should-see-it/article_62ecd2aa-0639-5048-81a0-40538d664383.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

 

 

Whether it's Sipple saying this, or Hoiberg, I don't know. But that's what makes this season even more unbearable.

[basketballjones]

https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/chatelain-huskers-many-losses-arent-the-biggest-problem-its-how-they-lose/article_24ae8ec4-8057-11ec-8537-9b1b05946d2a.html
Dirk Goes in Dry.... 
"Hoiberg called timeout and, like so many times this season, tried in vain to lift the derailed Big Red train back on the tracks. He has now coached 50 games against Big Ten competition since taking over in Lincoln three years ago.
His record? 5-45.
To put that number in perspective, consider this comparison. Nebraska basketball has played 49 games all-time against teams ranked No. 1, No. 2 or No. 3 in the country. Its record? 7-42. In other words, Hoiberg is performing as if every game is against a top-3 opponent. Worse, actually.
Put it another way: In 59 games against major-conference competition, Hoiberg is 6-53, including 35 double-digit losses. That’s worse than Nebraska’s 8-51 record at Allen Fieldhouse since 1955."

[hhcmatt]

Asking because I'm curious: Is there another school that has just one guy who does all the recruiting?

[49r]

49 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/chatelain-huskers-many-losses-arent-the-biggest-problem-its-how-they-lose/article_24ae8ec4-8057-11ec-8537-9b1b05946d2a.html
Dirk Goes in Dry.... 
"Hoiberg called timeout and, like so many times this season, tried in vain to lift the derailed Big Red train back on the tracks. He has now coached 50 games against Big Ten competition since taking over in Lincoln three years ago.
His record? 5-45.
To put that number in perspective, consider this comparison. Nebraska basketball has played 49 games all-time against teams ranked No. 1, No. 2 or No. 3 in the country. Its record? 7-42. In other words, Hoiberg is performing as if every game is against a top-3 opponent. Worse, actually.
Put it another way: In 59 games against major-conference competition, Hoiberg is 6-53, including 35 double-digit losses. That’s worse than Nebraska’s 8-51 record at Allen Fieldhouse since 1955."

 

[Huskerpapa]

31 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

Asking because I'm curious: Is there another school that has just one guy who does all the recruiting?

Conceptual many college programs have recruiting coordinators but yet all coaches share the actual recruiting.  But no, I am unaware that others do it the same as we choose.  I too wonder if there are successful programs that we are attempting to emulate?? 

[hhcmatt]

35 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

Conceptual many college programs have recruiting coordinators but yet all coaches share the actual recruiting.  But no, I am unaware that others do it the same as we choose.  I too wonder if there are successful programs that we are attempting to emulate?? 

 

How much control did he have at St Johns and was that an unwritten condition for signing with us?

[Blackshirt83]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:02 AM, hhcmatt said:

 

Work it back the other way: what happens if this all was working and Matt A leaves because he got a job somewhere else? Why put ourselves into a position where guys are irreplaceable?

 

Gates and Loesner are both willing to recruit.  Get one more guy who can recruit and then you have 4 coaches who can recruit and coach instead of a bunch of silos. Being less than the sum of your parts can happen off the court too.

There's zero reason those guys shouldn't be recruiting too. And they do. At least those two do. But it's not their primary role. Coaching is. Neither of them are on the same level as Abdelsmath as a recruier. And Abdelsmathisn'tanywhereclosetobeingas gooda coach as the other three. We haven't had a recruiter with his connections and ability to get players to come here in decades if ever. My point is regardless of wether you think keeping Fred is the correct move or not, getting rid of Abdelsmath because people want a sacrificial scalp isn't just dumb it would quite possibly be the dumbest thing that this program has ever done.

 

I am disgusted about what I have heard about this program under this staff's care but as much as I would have no real problem if they fired Fred tomorrow and wanted him fired as soon as I listened to our Sr. PG speak, I am actually now hoping he get another year, not because I have any faith Hoiberg is capable of turning things around I actually think the rest of this staff could. If someone from the Athletic department steps up and empowers them to do it. 

 

And if things don't improve enough at least you have shaved a bit off Hoiberg's deal and can try to bring in an actual capable head coach who might be willing to keep these assistants here, or at least one or two of them. 

[cornfed24-7]

21 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

getting rid of Abdelsmath because people want a sacrificial scalp isn't just dumb it would quite possibly be the dumbest thing that this program has ever done.

Keeping the guy responsible for recruiting the talent that has produced the worst three years in Nebraska basketball history is a special kind of stupid.

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

36 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

There's zero reason those guys shouldn't be recruiting too. And they do. At least those two do. But it's not their primary role. Coaching is. Neither of them are on the same level as Abdelsmath as a recruier. And Abdelsmathisn'tanywhereclosetobeingas gooda coach as the other three. We haven't had a recruiter with his connections and ability to get players to come here in decades if ever. My point is regardless of wether you think keeping Fred is the correct move or not, getting rid of Abdelsmath because people want a sacrificial scalp isn't just dumb it would quite possibly be the dumbest thing that this program has ever done.

 

I am disgusted about what I have heard about this program under this staff's care but as much as I would have no real problem if they fired Fred tomorrow and wanted him fired as soon as I listened to our Sr. PG speak, I am actually now hoping he get another year, not because I have any faith Hoiberg is capable of turning things around I actually think the rest of this staff could. If someone from the Athletic department steps up and empowers them to do it. 

 

And if things don't improve enough at least you have shaved a bit off Hoiberg's deal and can try to bring in an actual capable head coach who might be willing to keep these assistants here, or at least one or two of them. 

Starting to think that this actually is Matt, just spelling his name wrong to throw us off. 

[GoBigRed]

1 hour ago, Blackshirt83 said:

There's zero reason those guys shouldn't be recruiting too. And they do. At least those two do. But it's not their primary role. Coaching is. Neither of them are on the same level as Abdelsmath as a recruier. And Abdelsmathisn'tanywhereclosetobeingas gooda coach as the other three. We haven't had a recruiter with his connections and ability to get players to come here in decades if ever. My point is regardless of wether you think keeping Fred is the correct move or not, getting rid of Abdelsmath because people want a sacrificial scalp isn't just dumb it would quite possibly be the dumbest thing that this program has ever done.

 

I am disgusted about what I have heard about this program under this staff's care but as much as I would have no real problem if they fired Fred tomorrow and wanted him fired as soon as I listened to our Sr. PG speak, I am actually now hoping he get another year, not because I have any faith Hoiberg is capable of turning things around I actually think the rest of this staff could. If someone from the Athletic department steps up and empowers them to do it. 

 

And if things don't improve enough at least you have shaved a bit off Hoiberg's deal and can try to bring in an actual capable head coach who might be willing to keep these assistants here, or at least one or two of them. 

 

say it with me:

 

Ab   del    mass   ih

Ab   del    mass   ih

 

Abdel   massih

 

Abdelmassih

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Blackshirt83 said:

There's zero reason those guys shouldn't be recruiting too. And they do. At least those two do. But it's not their primary role. Coaching is. Neither of them are on the same level as Abdelsmath as a recruier. And Abdelsmathisn'tanywhereclosetobeingas gooda coach as the other three. We haven't had a recruiter with his connections and ability to get players to come here in decades if ever. My point is regardless of wether you think keeping Fred is the correct move or not, getting rid of Abdelsmath because people want a sacrificial scalp isn't just dumb it would quite possibly be the dumbest thing that this program has ever done.

 

The problem isn't his exactly his individual recruiting; it's that I don't think he can exist in a role where he doesn't fully control recruiting and I don't know how you walk that back other than to replace him.

[GoBigRed]

Abdelmassih is like a Monopoly player who buys every property he lands on first until he runs out of money, but he never has a whole set of the same color. What does that get you in the end? A whole bunch of rental payments but no ability to build houses or hotels. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by GoBigFred

[Chuck Taylor]

I think we all latched onto a certain narrative early in the season that the offensive execution and shot selection were poor and have just kind of stuck with it. Then there was the rebounding, which everyone attributes to lack of effort. But after watching the last few games, I haven't really been struck by our poor play so much as our lack of talent. OK, Bryce is an NBA prospect but he's a freshman. Trey is a decent player (and hurt for most of the season) but he's not close to all-BIG level. Lat and Walker wouldn't start for anybody else in the league. Verge can score, but Purdue or Wisconsin wouldn't have considered taking him because his game doesn't translate to winning. Wilcher and Edwards weren't raging successes at their last school and you can see why they left. Kobe seems to be a favorite but that's mainly because he's not Verge. WB showed  promise, but he's out.

 

I'm not saying this team is well coached, far from it. We should be able to win a few conference games, but John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a winning record.

[hhcmatt]

16 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I think we all latched onto a certain narrative early in the season that the offensive execution and shot selection were poor and have just kind of stuck with it. Then there was the rebounding, which everyone attributes to lack of effort. But after watching the last few games, I haven't really been struck by our poor play so much as our lack of talent. OK, Bryce is an NBA prospect but he's a freshman. Trey is a decent player (and hurt for most of the season) but he's not close to all-BIG level. Lat and Walker wouldn't start for anybody else in the league. Verge can score, but Purdue or Wisconsin wouldn't have considered taking him because his game doesn't translate to winning. Wilcher and Edwards weren't raging successes at their last school and you can see why they left. Kobe seems to be a favorite but that's mainly because he's not Verge. WB showed  promise, but he's out.

 

I'm not saying this team is well coached, far from it. We should be able to win a few conference games, but John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a winning record.

 

I completely disagree about the coaching. Assume your premise about our roster lacking in talent is correct.  A coach that valued winning over style would run a slow methodical offense and put more focus on making sure we have our team defense down.

[Chuck Taylor]

12 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I completely disagree about the coaching. Assume your premise about our roster lacking in talent is correct.  A coach that valued winning over style would run a slow methodical offense and put more focus on making sure we have our team defense down.

You're right, my point was more that the lack of talent has become much more apparent as the season has gone on. We were convinced that the team was talented because of all the hype last summer and, for me at least, it's now clear that this roster really is weak (especially with Trey's and WB's injuries.) But yeah, Doc's old style could have squeezed more wins out of this group.

[tbowman]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:23 AM, hhcmatt said:

 

I completely disagree about the coaching. Assume your premise about our roster lacking in talent is correct.  A coach that valued winning over style would run a slow methodical offense and put more focus on making sure we have our team defense down.

 

And this is exactly why this is such an easy decision for me. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever watching one more game of plodding, grind down the shot clock, boring basketball. The Barry Collier and Doc Sadler eras are periods of time I don't ever want to return to.

 

In addition, the best players don't want to play like that. If talent is needed to compete in the Big 10 then Nebraska should play a brand of basketball the best recruits want to play. 

 

Arguably the most successful coach in Nebraska history, Danny Nee, has four pretty atrocious seasons until he turned it around dramatically in year 5. A majority of the fan base was calling for his head after year 4. 

 

Year 1 of Fred was, for me, a throw-away year. He had little time to recruit and none of those players were able to stick. 

 

So, basically, Fred has had 2 seasons. I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. I saw a significant jump in talent last season and another modest bump in talent this season. Yes, it hasn't yet shown up in wins and losses, but the talent is improving. And looking at this recruiting class, I am seeing another bump in talent. 

 

Fred easily gets 5 years for me. And more likely 6-7 years. And I'm pretty confident he will get Nebraska where we want to go if given the freedom to get them there. The last thing he needs is to be micromanaged. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by tbowman

[Huskerpapa]

5 minutes ago, tbowman said:

 

And this is exactly why this is such an easy decision for me. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever watching one more game of plodding, grind down the shot clock, boring basketball. The Barry Collier and Doc Sadler eras are periods of time I don't ever want to return to.

 

In addition, the best players don't want to play like that. If talent is needed to compete in the Big 10 then Nebraska should play a brand of basketball the best recruits want to play. 

 

Arguably the most successful coach in Nebraska history, Danny Nee, has four pretty atrocious seasons until he turned it around dramatically in year 5. A majority of the fan base was calling for his head after year 4. 

 

Year 1 of Fred was, for me, a throw-away year. He had little time to recruit and none of those players were able to stick. 

 

So, basically, Fred has had 2 seasons. I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. I saw a significant jump in talent last season and another modest bump in talent this season. Yes, it hasn't yet shown up in wins and losses, but the talent is improving. And looking at this recruiting class, I am seeing another bump in talent. 

 

Fred easily gets 5 years for me. And more likely 6-7 years. And I'm pretty confident he will get Nebraska where we want to go if given the freedom to get them there. The last thing he needs is to be micromanaged. 

Tbowman, let's say I agree with you & further let's assume my title is AD. Would you require any changes in either assistant coaches or schematics as we finish this season and plan for next season? 

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, tbowman said:

 

And this is exactly why this is such an easy decision for me. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever watching one more game of plodding, grind down the shot clock, boring basketball. The Barry Collier and Doc Sadler eras are periods of time I don't ever want to return to.

 

In addition, the best players don't want to play like that. If talent is needed to compete in the Big 10 then Nebraska should play a brand of basketball the best recruits want to play. 

 

Arguably the most successful coach in Nebraska history, Danny Nee, has four pretty atrocious seasons until he turned it around dramatically in year 5. A majority of the fan base was calling for his head after year 4. 

 

Year 1 of Fred was, for me, a throw-away year. He had little time to recruit and none of those players were able to stick. 

 

So, basically, Fred has had 2 seasons. I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. I saw a significant jump in talent last season and another modest bump in talent this season. Yes, it hasn't yet shown up in wins and losses, but the talent is improving. And looking at this recruiting class, I am seeing another bump in talent. 

 

Fred easily gets 5 years for me. And more likely 6-7 years. And I'm pretty confident he will get Nebraska where we want to go if given the freedom to get them there. The last thing he needs is to be micromanaged. 

 

There is a world inbetween a 10 shot clock and a 30 second shot clock where a lot of teams live.

[Norm Peterson]

3 hours ago, tbowman said:

Arguably the most successful coach in Nebraska history, Danny Nee, has four pretty atrocious seasons until he turned it around dramatically in year 5. A majority of the fan base was calling for his head after year 4. 

 

Nee's first team at Nebraska finished with 21 wins and a 3rd place finish in the NIT. His 2nd season, they won 14; the 3rd year they won 17.

 

Fred Hoiberg's first three years should be so atrocious.

[BannedAccount]

4 hours ago, tbowman said:

 

And this is exactly why this is such an easy decision for me. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever watching one more game of plodding, grind down the shot clock, boring basketball. The Barry Collier and Doc Sadler eras are periods of time I don't ever want to return to.

 

In addition, the best players don't want to play like that. If talent is needed to compete in the Big 10 then Nebraska should play a brand of basketball the best recruits want to play. 

 

Arguably the most successful coach in Nebraska history, Danny Nee, has four pretty atrocious seasons until he turned it around dramatically in year 5. A majority of the fan base was calling for his head after year 4. 

 

Year 1 of Fred was, for me, a throw-away year. He had little time to recruit and none of those players were able to stick. 

 

So, basically, Fred has had 2 seasons. I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. I saw a significant jump in talent last season and another modest bump in talent this season. Yes, it hasn't yet shown up in wins and losses, but the talent is improving. And looking at this recruiting class, I am seeing another bump in talent. 

 

Fred easily gets 5 years for me. And more likely 6-7 years. And I'm pretty confident he will get Nebraska where we want to go if given the freedom to get them there. The last thing he needs is to be micromanaged. 

There is a difference between bringing in talent based off rankings, and talent that fits your system that you can develop.  So far we've seen 3 roster flips with anfourth one coming and yet to have a pg or suitable big man for this conference.  You can say wait till next year and then what?  Wait 3-4 more years hoping they stay and develop where it shows progress?  Hard sell for me to think it will happen based on what has happened thus far.

[uneblinstu]

If Fred stays, I don't think it flips as much as some think. I legitimately have no idea what Trev's going to do and I'm not going to make an argument one way or the other. If this incoming class fits together better and he can find a pg in the portal, you should know whether or not it'll be worth staying the course by the end of next season. 

 

I am intrigued by what is in that class and would like to see them play here, but if Trev thinks Fred's not the guy, that shouldn't factor into his decision.