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Hot Seat


GoBigFred
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15 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

Name ALL the other NBA Coaches we could get to Lincoln, I’ll wait…

So just hold on to him forever because he coached in the NBA and because we’ll never get anybody else who coached in the NBA? OK got it. 
 

FWIW I am not suggesting he is on the hot seat yet. What I am suggesting is if we are 24-66 after three years, why shouldn’t it be hot or at least warm? 24-66 over three years is putrid even for Nebraska basketball. For those who down voted my post or say there’s no hot seat talk at all at the end of this year, what kind of benchmarks do you need to see next year then if we are indeed 24-66 after three years and Bryce has left? I’m not seeing any growth in this program whatsoever. That non-NBA head coach Tim Miles had us in the NCAA Tournament in year 2 and won 47 games in his first three years here. Heck, he won 19 games in his final season here and we fired him, and we’ve won 19 games total since Fred got here.


I get that “it’s Fred freakin Hoiberg”. But we really, really suck. 

Edited by GoBigFred
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1 hour ago, GoBigFred said:

What I am suggesting is if we are 24-66 after three years, why shouldn’t it be hot or at least warm? 24-66 over three years is putrid even for Nebraska basketball.

I can never bring myself to pick against my team. Its why I will always pick us to win in our little guessing contests. Even when I know its foolish. But for the most part I am a realist. And the scenario that this team is more successful, in terms of wins,  than the previous two years, looks pretty dubious at the moment.

Like I stated in an earlier post I like the talent on this team that I believe will come back next year. I think its talent you can build a team around. Its clear to me this years pieces, which look immensely talented, do not fit together or will not fit together in time to have even a mediocre season.

Which brings us to year four. Hoiberg will probably be starting with his highest floor of returning talent he's had here. Am I confident he can incorporate the returning talent with the new talent quick enough that we have not dug ourselves a hole we can't get out of before conference play starts? Nope.

Last year when we were in that period where we were playing a game nearly every other day I though you could literally see the coaching that was taking place from game to game. I saw open shots (misses but open), ball movement, and some solid defense.

I just don't believe this is a coaching issue in terms of basketball. But there seems to be a coaching issue in terms of getting his players to play as a team before half the season is over. And Hoibergs recruiting model does not mesh with my perceived coaching issue of his.

And all of that to say when he was hired that I thought he probably need 5 years worst case scenario. Depending on how this season plays out though I think he is gravitating to "Need to thread the needle" space Frost is in. And I am getting much less sure that he can.

 

 

 

 

Edited by cornfed24-7
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I personally don’t care if a coach has coached in the NBA.  Actually, I would prefer they didn’t.  Just like NFL coaches going to college football…it’s a different game.  I liked Fred because of his ISU background.  I would take Jim Beilein because of his Michigan success.  

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12 hours ago, GoBigFred said:

So just hold on to him forever because he coached in the NBA and because we’ll never get anybody else who coached in the NBA? OK got it. 
 

FWIW I am not suggesting he is on the hot seat yet. What I am suggesting is if we are 24-66 after three years, why shouldn’t it be hot or at least warm? 24-66 over three years is putrid even for Nebraska basketball. For those who down voted my post or say there’s no hot seat talk at all at the end of this year, what kind of benchmarks do you need to see next year then if we are indeed 24-66 after three years and Bryce has left? I’m not seeing any growth in this program whatsoever. That non-NBA head coach Tim Miles had us in the NCAA Tournament in year 2 and won 47 games in his first three years here. Heck, he won 19 games in his final season here and we fired him, and we’ve won 19 games total since Fred got here.


I get that “it’s Fred freakin Hoiberg”. But we really, really suck. 

Based on what I saw vs. Indiana there is no reason to think Bryce is a One And Done guy. He looked overwhelmed to me.

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2 hours ago, bkamler said:

Based on what I saw vs. Indiana there is no reason to think Bryce is a One And Done guy. He looked overwhelmed to me.

 

the NBA drafts anything that has an ideal body. And he's got that. He's going. They'll finish his training there. 

 

That said, he *could* justify a second year perhaps, but his stock might have to get to 2d round for him to consider that. I don't see that happening. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, bkamler said:

Based on what I saw vs. Indiana there is no reason to think Bryce is a One And Done guy. He looked overwhelmed to me.

It doesn't matter. He's getting lottery grades on mock draft sites. NBA doesn't care anymore if you've shown completion in college. They'd rather have you for one more year in their system than one more year playing college. Playing another year can literally only hurt his draft stock. He would be making a monumentally bad financial decision to come back. Just the way it is anymore. They need to get rid of one and dones. You either go NBA/GLeage right away or you stay 2 at a minimum. 

Edited by basketballjones
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24 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

It doesn't matter. He's getting lottery grades on mock draft sites. NBA doesn't care anymore if you've shown completion in college. They'd rather have you for one more year in their system than one more year playing college. Playing another year can literally only hurt his draft stock. He would be making a monumentally bad financial decision to come back. Just the way it is anymore. They need to get rid of one and dones. You either go NBA/GLeage right away or you stay 2 at a minimum. 

 

I have to disagree.  There are many cases where coming back to college increase someone's draft status.  I do agree with you that Bryce is on everyone's draft board but most of that is based on him being a 5 star player coming out of high school.  I see some weakness in his game with the glaring one being his outside shot if not great and defensively, he needs alot of work.  He also struggles trying to guard or rebound against guys who are stronger.  No question at all that he has NBA talent and most likely, he will take his shot at the end of the year but disagree that another year can only hurt him.  I actually think another year would improve his draft stock.

Edited by kldm64
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47 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

 

I have to disagree.  There are many cases where coming back to college increase someone's draft status.  I do agree with you that Bryce is on everyone's draft board but most of that is based on him being a 5 star player coming out of high school.  I see some weakness in his game with the glaring one being his outside shot if not great and defensively, he needs alot of work.  He also struggles trying to guard or rebound against guys who are stronger.  No question at all that he has NBA talent and most likely, he will take his shot at the end of the year but disagree that another year can only hurt him.  I actually think another year would improve his draft stock.

Your draft status can definitely be helped by staying another year - if you were not projected to be drafted or were later first round/second round. Not when you're lottery pick. Lottery pick = strike while the iron is hot. You're putting yourself in a High-Risk, Low-Reward situation by coming back. 

NBAdraft.net has him at #8 right now. You'd come back so you can be #5? 

Edited by basketballjones
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1 hour ago, kldm64 said:

I do agree with you that Bryce is on everyone's draft board but most of that is based on him being a 5 star player coming out of high school. 

Last summer, literally every draft board had Bryce as a 2023 pick. Despite what people on Husker Hoops Central think, others have seen enough to not only move him into the 2022 mocks, but he keeps climbing every week and now he's in the top 10 on some. Scouts look for certain attributes and they don't care about his current lack of strength. Conversely, Hunter Sallis was a projected 2022 top 10 pick last summer and now he's a 2023 late first/early second round pick. 

 

This is also a relatively poor draft class outside of the top 3-6 guys. That's a big factor. The 2023 draft class is already being touted as one of the best/deepest in years. 

Edited by millerhusker
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54 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Your draft status can definitely be helped by staying another year - if you were not projected to be drafted or were later first round/second round. Not when you're lottery pick. Lottery pick = strike while the iron is hot. You're putting yourself in a High-Risk, Low-Reward situation by coming back. 

NBAdraft.net has him at #8 right now. You'd come back so you can be #5? 

Yep. Here's an example. 

Ochai Agbaji's career stats at KU:

Freshman - 8.5 ppg   4.6 rpg  0.9 apg

Sophomore - 10 ppg   4.2 rpg   2.0 apg

Junior - 14.1 ppg  3.7 rpg  1.9 apg

Senior - 22.6 ppg  4 rpg  1.6 apg

 

After his freshman year scouts saw enough potential to project him as a top 20 pick and possibly a lottery pick. Returned to school and improved as a college player every year. 3 point shooting, which was the main concern his freshman year, improved drastically. After his sophomore and junior years, he either would've gone in the second round or undrafted. 

 

Also, I watched Ziaire Williams play at Stanford last year. He was straight up trash. Shot 37% from the field and 29% from three and at 180 pounds got pushed around constantly. But he's long, athletic and has potential so he was taken 10th overall. If he would've stayed in school, his draft stock would've dropped the older he got. With high ceiling guys, the NBA prefers to mold their habits at that level. Heard this from Jerry Sloan - with players who have a lot of raw talent and potential, NBA coaches think they develop bad habits the longer they stay in college. I actually think Bryce is at risk of this on our team (and probably is already happening). 

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25 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

This would go in the old "Rock bottom" thread if I could find it:

 

We're 192 in NET, and our only wins are Q4. 

 

I suppose it's better than our first year under Hoiberg where we had 3 Quad 4 losses. That's more rock bottom than where we are now (if that means anything at this point).

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Iowa State is 8-0 and ranked #19 under first-year head coach TJ Otzelberger.

 

Minnesota is 7-0 and receiving votes under first-year head coach Ben Johnson.

 

I don’t believe either one has spent so much as a day coaching on an NBA staff.

 

Both teams were also terrible last year. 
 

Oh well I guess. Maybe next year. Or the year after that.

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6 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Your draft status can definitely be helped by staying another year - if you were not projected to be drafted or were later first round/second round. Not when you're lottery pick. Lottery pick = strike while the iron is hot. You're putting yourself in a High-Risk, Low-Reward situation by coming back. 

NBAdraft.net has him at #8 right now. You'd come back so you can be #5? 

 

Totally agree with you that if you are a lottery pick, you go.  If you happen to fall to projected 2nd round, then it might be to his benefit to come back another year.  No question the kid has NBA skills and I do expect him to be a one and done player.  It all depends on where his draft status is at the end of the year.  Now if some nice business wanted to throw a few million dollars his way via NIL to stay, that might help as well.  :)

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21 hours ago, basketballjones said:

No. I've been highly critical of Hoiberg et al this year. But no. You absolutely have to take these things into consideration:


1. No one was returning from Miles's last team. And the recruiting class he was bringing in was hot trash. Hoiberg had to literally round up whoever he could find to have a team. 
2. Last year wasn't just a "covid year" for us. It was a disaster. I really think last year's team was significantly better than what we saw. Also, he kept dudes fighting and playing all year, regardless of the record. 

3. To me, this truly is year 1. Year 1.5 at best. 

I also think we're pivoting. Zigging while others are zagging. Hoiberg and crew were on the cutting edge with transfers. But now that everyone is doing it and it's way weirder, I like the traditional guys they're bringing in. Lawrence, Dawson, and Lloyd are all supposedly just super solid players that fit well with Wilhelm, McPherson, Oleg, and Tominaga (Bryce and Trey are gone don't even try to think about them here next year. Won't happen). And, supposedly, Blaise Keita is maybe the best big available out there. Let's give this time. 

You hope all the players are back.  So far under these coaches and the nature of the portal combined with lack of success, it seems hard to say all will be back with the newcomers.

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9 hours ago, GoBigFred said:

Iowa State is 8-0 and ranked #19 under first-year head coach TJ Otzelberger.

 

Minnesota is 7-0 and receiving votes under first-year head coach Ben Johnson.

 

I don’t believe either one has spent so much as a day coaching on an NBA staff.

 

Both teams were also terrible last year. 
 

Oh well I guess. Maybe next year. Or the year after that.

How excited would you have been if we hired Ben Johnson after letting Tim Miles go?

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