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Dear Doc Sadler


NUdiehard
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Dear Doc,

 

We here in Nebraska think you are a great guy.  You are funny, witty, goofy and look and walk like a penguin.  And for the most part, you're a pretty good coach too.  But we also know that growing up in the south you probably spent more time in the gym than in math class, so we want to help you out a bit.  This piece of knowledge could radically change your life, and possibly even extend your coaching career 10-20 years (if you want to keep going that long anyway).  So, this is a bit complex, involving numbers and all, but here it is:

 

Three is greater than two.  

 

I realize this may not click all at once.  It is a lot to take in.  But let it simmer for a while.  Let it ruminate in your mind.  Draw the numbers on the chalkboard and see if starts to clarify in your mind.  It will take a while, but I believe with perseverance, you can get it.

 

Okay, now I am going one step farther.  We are going to advanced mathematics here, and you may never fully being able to grasp this, but it still has to be explained:

 

Not only is 3 > 2, but it is 50% greater than 2.  Let me put it another way since you didn't pay enough attention in math class:  3 is 1.5 times as much as 2.  This means it take three 2s to equal two 3s.  Whoa!  Mind blown, right?  But it's true.  

 

So this means, when the opposing team makes those WIDE OPEN 3s that your defense gives them, they are getting 50% more points than if they would otherwise have made a difficult contested 2 in the paint.  Crazy thought, isn't it?

 

So here a couple little small helpful tips we here in Nebraska would like to offer:

 

(1)  When the opponent parks one of their best shooters on the weak side corner, rather than having the Nebraska player who is guarding that shooter go ALL THE WAY TO THE MIDDLE OF THE PAINT, maybe, just maybe, keep him a little closer to the shooter, so that when the opponent swings the ball to the weak side (or drives and kicks, or throws a skip pass, or uses their big man to block the defender from getting back out to his man), the Nebraska player will actually be able to get back to his man and contest the shot.  Because remember, the 3 is worth 50% more than a 2.  And the corner 3 is a shorter shot than the top of the key 3.  

 

(2)  Just because the opponent may occasionally drive the ball into the paint, or throw and entry pass into the paint, doesn't mean you have to send ALL 5 NEBRASKA DEFENDERS into the paint as well.  In fact, you don't even need to ALWAYS double team that post entry.  Believe it or not, sometimes your players can man up and defend one-on-one.  You should let them try it sometime and see how it works.  Especially when the opponent's big catches the ball 10 feel from the hoop, you don't really need to send a hard double thereby leaving his man WIDE OPEN for a 3 (which remember, is worth 50% more than the 2 point shot).  

 

(3)  I know that when you were growing up in the south in the 1970s, you and many other of your friends couldn't make shots farther than 10 feet from the basket.  But I have to share a revelation with you.  The game has changed.  Players today grew up watching Steph Curry, and they like to shoot from 22 feet and beyond.  It is all they did all day growing up.  Even the big fat plodders on the other team like to shoot that long shot.  And believe it or not, they can make it--especially when THEY ARE WIDE OPEN. 

 

(4)  You don't need to have 4 defenders in the paint AT ALL TIMES.  You can actually let some of your off ball defenders guard their guys as well.  I know this is radical, but it is true.  There is no law that says you must have at least 4 defenders in the paint at ALL TIMES.  

 

So, there it is.  Life changing knowledge for you to contemplate.  If it still isn't clicking, maybe you could ask one of the team tutor's to sit down with you and help you figure it out.  I hear some of them are pretty good at advanced mathematics.  We believe you can do it, but you have to believe in yourself.  It is within you.  I know you have not been able to grasp this concept for the entirely of your 40 year coaching career, but we believe even old penguins like you can learn new tricks--even new math tricks.  So dig deep, meditate if necessary, and try to pull it out of your inner being.  If you can do it, it will change your life---AND change the lives of all of us Nebraska fans who have been pulling out our hair year after year after year watching our opponents shoot WIDE OPEN 3s time and time again.

 

Sincerely,

 

All Nebraska Hoops Fans

 

cc:  Fred Hoiberg

Edited by NUdiehard
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Agreed 100%. I have no knowledge of their philosophy on defense but having watched Doc defenses for a long time I think I am correct in saying this is their philosophy:

 

We will make teams beat us from 3 and hope that they miss. We will not lose the game on the interior.

 

And what happens? The other team inevitably goes off from 3. The problem for this year’s team (and every Fred team so far) is they have no interior defensive presence so we’ll get destroyed inside if we don’t pack it in. 
 

Creighton’s 4 games this year from 3 are: 7-25 (28%), 1-19 (5.3%), 10-23 (43.5%), 5-14 (35.7%). Guess which one was against Nebraska? 10-23.
 

Idaho State: 6-18 (33.3%), 6-25 (24.0%), 5-23 (21.7%), 12-37 (32.4%). Guess which was against Nebraska? 12-37.

 

Western Illinois and Sam Houston State’s 3 ball numbers against us are about on par with their other games this year.

 

I used to think we were just cursed against Creighton in that they’d always go off on us from 3, but in reality it’s probably because Doc Sadler has been coaching our defense against them for the better part of the last 15 years and it’s always the same thing. How many of Creighton’s looks the other night were wide open? Sure seemed like most of them. I don’t recall thinking “how the hell did he hit that shot?” a whole lot. But I do remember thinking a lot “oh God this is going in again, he’s wide open” and “wow we got lucky that one didn’t go in.”

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We run a pack line defense.  My guess is, it is in part because of our personnel.  Our front line is by no means huge.  My understanding of pack line is it is a sagging, help oriented defense, relying on low post double teams.  It also helps with defensive rebounds.  Many teams use it.   A good team that runs it (Virginia) can be very effective. 
 

I can’t defend the results.  There were wide open shots Idaho State got that a better team would have made.  But it’s probably what we should be running.  We just need to be better at it.  I shudder to think what Dickinson or Cockburn would do against man to man.

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One thing I have noticed is they like to send out a big to double a guard at times outside the three.  Wilhelm especially does it.  Not sure the reasoning other then they are trying to get a team to throw it inside where the sagging defense will be there for an easy double.  Not sure this will work against talented teams with a big as this will expose the lane.  

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19 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

Dear Doc,

 

We here in Nebraska think you are a great guy.  You are funny, witty, goofy and look and walk like a penguin.  And for the most part, you're a pretty good coach too.  But we also know that growing up in the south you probably spent more time in the gym than in math class, so we want to help you out a bit.  This piece of knowledge could radically change your life, and possibly even extend your coaching career 10-20 years (if you want to keep going that long anyway).  So, this is a bit complex, involving numbers and all, but here it is:

 

Three is greater than two.  

 

I realize this may not click all at once.  It is a lot to take in.  But let it simmer for a while.  Let it ruminate in your mind.  Draw the numbers on the chalkboard and see if starts to clarify in your mind.  It will take a while, but I believe with perseverance, you can get it.

 

Okay, now I am going one step farther.  We are going to advanced mathematics here, and you may never fully being able to grasp this, but it still has to be explained:

 

Not only is 3 > 2, but it is 50% greater than 2.  Let me put it another way since you didn't pay enough attention in math class:  3 is 1.5 times as much as 2.  This means it take three 2s to equal two 3s.  Whoa!  Mind blown, right?  But it's true.  

 

So this means, when the opposing team makes those WIDE OPEN 3s that your defense gives them, they are getting 50% more points than if they would otherwise have made a difficult contested 2 in the paint.  Crazy thought, isn't it?

 

So here a couple little small helpful tips we here in Nebraska would like to offer:

 

(1)  When the opponent parks one of their best shooters on the weak side corner, rather than having the Nebraska player who is guarding that shooter go ALL THE WAY TO THE MIDDLE OF THE PAINT, maybe, just maybe, keep him a little closer to the shooter, so that when the opponent swings the ball to the weak side (or drives and kicks, or throws a skip pass, or uses their big man to block the defender from getting back out to his man), the Nebraska player will actually be able to get back to his man and contest the shot.  Because remember, the 3 is worth 50% more than a 2.  And the corner 3 is a shorter shot than the top of the key 3.  

 

(2)  Just because the opponent may occasionally drive the ball into the paint, or throw and entry pass into the paint, doesn't mean you have to send ALL 5 NEBRASKA DEFENDERS into the paint as well.  In fact, you don't even need to ALWAYS double team that post entry.  Believe it or not, sometimes your players can man up and defend one-on-one.  You should let them try it sometime and see how it works.  Especially when the opponent's big catches the ball 10 feel from the hoop, you don't really need to send a hard double thereby leaving his man WIDE OPEN for a 3 (which remember, is worth 50% more than the 2 point shot).  

 

(3)  I know that when you were growing up in the south in the 1970s, you and many other of your friends couldn't make shots farther than 10 feet from the basket.  But I have to share a revelation with you.  The game has changed.  Players today grew up watching Steph Curry, and they like to shoot from 22 feet and beyond.  It is all they did all day growing up.  Even the big fat plodders on the other team like to shoot that long shot.  And believe it or not, they can make it--especially when THEY ARE WIDE OPEN. 

 

(4)  You don't need to have 4 defenders in the paint AT ALL TIMES.  You can actually let some of your off ball defenders guard their guys as well.  I know this is radical, but it is true.  There is no law that says you must have at least 4 defenders in the paint at ALL TIMES.  

 

So, there it is.  Life changing knowledge for you to contemplate.  If it still isn't clicking, maybe you could ask one of the team tutor's to sit down with you and help you figure it out.  I hear some of them are pretty good at advanced mathematics.  We believe you can do it, but you have to believe in yourself.  It is within you.  I know you have not been able to grasp this concept for the entirely of your 40 year coaching career, but we believe even old penguins like you can learn new tricks--even new math tricks.  So dig deep, meditate if necessary, and try to pull it out of your inner being.  If you can do it, it will change your life---AND change the lives of all of us Nebraska fans who have been pulling out our hair year after year after year watching our opponents shoot WIDE OPEN 3s time and time again.

 

Sincerely,

 

All Nebraska Hoops Fans

 

cc:  Fred Hoiberg

You know that Doc isn’t an assistant coach anymore right?  He’s special assistant to the head coach. That means he can’t coach on the floor. Don’t put this on Doc. 

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40 minutes ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

You know that Doc isn’t an assistant coach anymore right?  He’s special assistant to the head coach. That means he can’t coach on the floor. Don’t put this on Doc. 


Isn’t he still on the bench during games? 
 

And even if he can’t coach on the floor during games, I’d venture to guess he is primarily responsible for putting the defensive game plan together. 

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1 hour ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

You know that Doc isn’t an assistant coach anymore right?  He’s special assistant to the head coach. That means he can’t coach on the floor. Don’t put this on Doc. 

You won't find a bigger Doc fan than me. However, to imply Doc isn't responsible for the results of the defense because of a silly title restricts his ability to coach on the floor seems ridiculous. 

You want to argue he needs time for the players to grasp/learn his system to execute it I'm with you.

Or even we don't quite have the players to run it how he'd like I'll listen. 

 

 

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It doesn't help we don't have good on the ball defenders.  It depends on the team.

 

Going through the play-by-play

 

In the paint

Western Illinois 21 - 36 (58.3 %) 42 points

Sam Houston State 12 - 25 (48.0%) 24 points

Creighton 17 - 33 (51.5 %) 34 points

Idaho State 7 - 13 (53.8 %) 14 points

 

Total 57 - 107 (53.3 %)

 

From 3

 

Western Illinois 9 - 33 (27.3 %) 27 points

Sam Houston State 9 - 30 (30.0 %) 27 points

Creighton 10 - 23 (43.5 %) 30 points

Idaho State 12 - 37 (32.4 %) 36 points

 

Total 40 - 123 (32.5 %)

 

From 2 outside the paint

 

Western Illinois 0 - 8 (0.0 %)

Sam Houston State 3 - 9 (33.3%)

Creighton 1 - 4 (25.0%)

Idaho State 1 - 1 (100.0 %)

 

Total 5 - 22 (22.7 %)

 

If the other team takes 60 FGA and we force them to shoot 3's

 

3 Pt FGA 35       33 % shooting 12 makes 36 points

Paint Att.  20      55 % shooting 11 makes 22 points

Outside Paint 5  25 % shooting 1 make 2 points

 

If the other team takes 60 FGA and we stop the 3

 

3 Pt FGA 20  33 % shooting 7 makes 21 points

Paint Att. 35  55 % shooting 19 makes 38 points

Outside Paint 5 25 % shooting 1 make 2 points

 

If the other team takes 60 FGA and they take equal 3's and paint shots

 

3 Pt FGA 27 33 % shooting 9 makes 27 points

Paint Att. 27 55 % shooting 15 makes 30 points

Outside paint 6 25% shooting 2 makes 4 points

 

It comes down to what the opposition does well and stop that.  The other part is we are a below average defensive team.  We have no one inside to stop the other team's post.  Walker is too small.  Bridenbach can't play defense without fouling.  Andre is not strong enough.  We have no good on ball defenders.  Unless Bryce gets better on defense, he might have to stay in school another year.  He plays too straight up, and it allows the ball handler to blow by him.  Same with Verge.  

 

I forgot to mention, our lack of rebounding, doesn't help.  It gives teams more shots.

Edited by brfrad
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1 hour ago, cornfed24-7 said:

You won't find a bigger Doc fan than me. However, to imply Doc isn't responsible for the results of the defense because of a silly title restricts his ability to coach on the floor seems ridiculous. 

You want to argue he needs time for the players to grasp/learn his system to execute it I'm with you.

Or even we don't quite have the players to run it how he'd like I'll listen. 

 

 

Trust me, he’s not responsible. 

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I get this thread but I look at our defensive numbers and our offensive numbers during the Hoiberg era and I don't get this thread.

 

Style, and that was this thread is about, doesn't dictate results; 3pa% is a style indicator. Tony Bennett is walking proof you can win a lot of games taking away the 2.

 

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Lord...yeah some open 3's take place.  But watching our team defend is overall a positive, and will only improve.

Philosophically I am a fan of inside out defense.  I would be much more concerned if there was a significant issue inside the paint.

That said, I too get frustrated by open look three's.  And when a team is hitting them, it can be excruciating. 

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23 hours ago, GoBigFred said:

Agreed 100%. I have no knowledge of their philosophy on defense but having watched Doc defenses for a long time I think I am correct in saying this is their philosophy:

 

We will make teams beat us from 3 and hope that they miss. We will not lose the game on the interior.

 

And what happens? The other team inevitably goes off from 3. The problem for this year’s team (and every Fred team so far) is they have no interior defensive presence so we’ll get destroyed inside if we don’t pack it in. 
 

Creighton’s 4 games this year from 3 are: 7-25 (28%), 1-19 (5.3%), 10-23 (43.5%), 5-14 (35.7%). Guess which one was against Nebraska? 10-23.
 

Idaho State: 6-18 (33.3%), 6-25 (24.0%), 5-23 (21.7%), 12-37 (32.4%). Guess which was against Nebraska? 12-37.

 

Western Illinois and Sam Houston State’s 3 ball numbers against us are about on par with their other games this year.

 

I used to think we were just cursed against Creighton in that they’d always go off on us from 3, but in reality it’s probably because Doc Sadler has been coaching our defense against them for the better part of the last 15 years and it’s always the same thing. How many of Creighton’s looks the other night were wide open? Sure seemed like most of them. I don’t recall thinking “how the hell did he hit that shot?” a whole lot. But I do remember thinking a lot “oh God this is going in again, he’s wide open” and “wow we got lucky that one didn’t go in.”


In Doc’s defense regarding Creighton, if we would’ve focused more on the perimeter Kalkbrenner would’ve more than likely had an even better night than he did. We just need a legit defensive post presence inside 

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1 minute ago, OmahaHusker said:


In Doc’s defense regarding Creighton, if we would’ve focused more on the perimeter Kalkbrenner would’ve more than likely had an even better night than he did. We just need a legit defensive post presence inside 

My post was meant to be a bit humorous but also probably was a bit harsh to Doc (and whoever else is coaching the defense).  I agree that we have some poor one-on-one defenders.  We also have a couple defenders (hate to pick on Verge and Bryce) who are terribly undisciplined.  And I agree that Walker is undersized in the post.  This will never be a great defensive team because of our personnel.  But I challenge anyone to go back and watch the Creighton game and the Idaho St. games and not be appalled at the wide open looks they got from 3.

 

Andre is raw, has poor body language and tries to do too much on offense.  BUT, he is 6'11" and has long arms and it a true legit rim protector.  If Doc (or Fred) or whoever, could convince him to just play his role, and defend and rebound and not try to be an offensive focal point, he can be a disruptor in the paint.  Starting him at 6'11" (and long) and Lat at 6'9" and Bryce at 6'7" and Edwards at 6'7" is hardly what I would call a small team.  They just need to be more disciplined, and need to run the opponent off the 3 and trust Andre to be a disruptor in the paint.  I would at least like to try it.

 

My primary frustration is I have seen this movie before with this coaching staff.  I can't remember if it was last year or 2 years ago, but I distinctly remember teams constantly going off from 3 on us early in the season, and then I distinctly remember Hoiberg acknowledging they changed the defense to take away more 3s--AND IT WORKED.  The defense got much better.  After that, I assumed (hoped?) that would solve this for good.  But here we are, right back where we started with Doc's over-packed defense.  I am not saying a packline defense can't ever work, but whatever version this is is too pack line.  It is too much commitment to the paint and not enough to the 3.  Good teams will destroy us from 3 if we keep this up (Look at Creighton, and they aren't even that good a shooting team).  I want Fred to make the adjustment now so the players can adjust and Doc can tinker against these lower level teams.  

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42 minutes ago, pmd9 said:

I just want to know where you all, who seem to know so very much about coaching, coached or are coaching!?!? And at what level? Trev will be expecting your resume soon…


🙄
 

99% of us didn’t play or coach college basketball. Doesn’t mean we can’t talk about basketball and what we’re seeing. I actually listened to a real college basketball coach on a podcast the other day say that sometimes coaches can be guilty of being blinded to certain players’ faults because they have biases from what they’ve seen from them in the past. Different perspectives are a good thing. Yeah we can criticize our 2-2 basketball team that lost to a Summit League team and barely beat Sam Houston State. I don’t think a basketball PhD is required to question things.  
 

Edited by GoBigFred
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11 minutes ago, GoBigFred said:


🙄
 

99% of us didn’t play or coach college basketball. Doesn’t mean we can’t talk about basketball and what we’re seeing. I actually listened to a real college basketball coach on a podcast the other day say that sometimes coaches can be guilty of being blinded to certain players’ faults because they have biases from what they’ve seen from them in the past. Different perspectives are a good thing. Yeah we can criticize our 2-2 basketball team that lost to a Summit League team and barely beat Sam Houston State. 

I suppose. I’m just feeling a bit fiesty today. GBR!

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7 minutes ago, pmd9 said:

I suppose. I’m just feeling a bit fiesty today. GBR!

It’s a game day, so understood. We’ve won 3 games in a row one time under Fred and never four in a row. So beating Southern, Tennessee State and South Dakota would be unprecedented success for this staff. Which is depressing. But what’s more depressing is I’m not sure if we can get that done. Fingers crossed.

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2 hours ago, brfrad said:

It doesn't help we don't have good on the ball defenders.  It depends on the team.....

 

It comes down to what the opposition does well and stop that.  The other part is we are a below average defensive team.  We have no one inside to stop the other team's post.  Walker is too small.  Bridenbach can't play defense without fouling.  Andre is not strong enough.  We have no good on ball defenders.  Unless Bryce gets better on defense, he might have to stay in school another year.  He plays too straight up, and it allows the ball handler to blow by him.  Same with Verge.  

 

I forgot to mention, our lack of rebounding, doesn't help.  It gives teams more shots.

 

Seems to me :Redface:  Blaise Keita can't get here soon enough.   Will it be in time?

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