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On further reflection, in the sober light of day, that was truly awful.


Norm Peterson
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And speaking of Teddy...   New Mexico State turns back UC Irvine 62-51 in opener (msn.com)                     By the way, I was at the Pan American center for the very first game that was played there....   Teddy Allen's five-year, five-school path has him primed for success at New Mexico State (yahoo.com)

Edited by jimmykc
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I hope I am wrong, but I am already sensing dissension in the ranks.  I have been to the practice scrimmage, both exhibitions and the first game, but let's back up even farther.

 

After last season, there was a lot of talk about Trey being the PG this year.  In his initial podcasts, he talked about how hard he has been working at PG and how excited he is to take that next step.  Then, enters Verge.  And suddenly Verge is getting all the hype.   And Trey is suddenly seen as more of "role" guy playing the SG.

 

Then the practice scrimmage, where Verge played one-on-one hero ball almost the entire game (much like last night).  Trey only shot 1 or 2 shots all night if i recall.

 

Then the first 2 exhibitions.  Verge played well and I thought distributed pretty well too.  But there were "looks" and "body language" from (and between) Verge, Trey and Bryce that I started to notice.  Instances where one of them would call for the ball, and the other would ignore or dismiss it.  I distinctly remember late in Colorado game (after Verge had been playing well and getting a lot of attention) that Trey was bringing the ball up and Verge was clapping and yelling for him to pass the ball to him.  Trey looked at him and just kept going.  I've seen the similar things in reverse, where Verge had the ball and didn't pass to Trey.

 

And let's remember, if Trey is a bit sour that Verge "stole" his PG spot, then that is surely going to rub off on Bryce.  And Trey is close to Lat and the other returning players, so if Verge keeps up the "hero ball hog" role, I could see the dissension escalate dramatically.

 

With all this said, I must be clear I don't have any inside or direct info on any of this.  This could all be in my imagination.  All of this is just reading "tea leaves" and "body language", but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.  Clearly the guys did not play as a team last night, and maybe some of this dissension that had been brewing finally came out.  Time will tell if they can get it corrected and back on track. 

Edited by NUdiehard
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3 minutes ago, hal9000 said:

It's weird how in one game he goes from the straw that stirs the drink to Teddy 2.0.  Fred's got to nip that in the bud.  Oh, and whatever they did to "address" the obvious rebound concerns leading up to this game, well.....

 

Exactly.  Ultimately, it will be what Fred allows.  The two main guys playing 1-on-1 vs team ball got 35 and 39 minutes on the court.  Would that have been different if Kobe was available?  Why didn't Keon get more time?  

 

While Verge may have gotten 13 rebounds, I wonder how many offensive rebounds he allowed by not putting a body on his guy, which allowed him to crash.  Of course, I don't think that concern is isolated to just Verge, but he's the one I specifically noted in a photo or video replay.  I also wonder how the rebounding issue might be different with Andre on the court.  At some point, Fred may need to decide he has to give up a little offensively, to correct the defensive issues.  Of course, Lat's absence on that end may have been more important that I had expected from a length and athleticism standpoint.  

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14 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

I hope I am wrong, but I am already sensing dissension in the ranks.  I have been to the practice scrimmage, both exhibitions and the first game, but let's back up even farther.

 

After last season, there was a lot of talk about Trey being the PG this year.  In his initial podcasts, he talked about how hard he has been working at PG and how excited he is to take that next step.  Then, enters Verge.  And suddenly Verge is getting all the hype.   And Trey is suddenly seen as more of "role" guy playing the SG.

 

Then the practice scrimmage, where Verge played one-on-one hero ball almost the entire game (much like last night).  Trey only shot 1 or 2 shots all night if i recall.

 

Then the first 2 exhibitions.  Verge played well and I thought distributed pretty well too.  But there were "looks" and "body language" from (and between) Verge, Trey and Bryce that I started to notice.  Instances where one of them would call for the ball, and the other would ignore or dismiss it.  I distinctly remember late in Colorado game (after Verge had been playing well and getting a lot of attention) that Trey was bringing the ball up and Verge was clapping and yelling for him to pass the ball to him.  Trey looked at him and just kept going.  I've seen the similar things in reverse, where Verge had the ball and didn't pass to Trey.

 

And let's remember, if Trey is a bit sour that Verge "stole" his PG spot, then that is surely going to rub off on Bryce.  And Trey is close to Lat and the other returning players, so if Verge keeps up the "hero ball hog" role, I could see the dissension escalate dramatically.

 

With all this said, I must be clear I don't have any inside or direct info on any of this.  This could all be in my imagination.  All of this is just reading "tea leaves" and "body language", but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.  Clearly the guys did not play as a team last night, and maybe some of this dissension that had been brewing finally came out.  Time will tell if they can get it corrected and back on track. 

Yeah, I had the sense that some players are thinking the games/stats are real now, so I need to get mine to make it to the NBA.  With what Fred is selling I could see him  potentially attracting the guys just want to use him to get them where they want to go and have no concern for the success of the Nebraska basketball team.  In fact, they may see our historical issues as providing them an enhanced opportunity to achieve that outcome.  If the issue persists at PG, Fred needs to act more quickly than he did last year with Teddy.  

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Last night was horrible and I actually woke up still in denial.  Fred needs a real PG to run his system and has yet to really have it.  I said Verge is a skinny Teddy and not sure he fits this system.  His body language and plays at times makes me think he may end up like Teddy.  I also agree Wilhelm is better suited at the 4 spot especially come big 10 time. Bryce has the talent but what he did last night at times doesnt fit the system.  So will Fred adapt to his players or make the players fit the system.

Edited by coughunter
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3 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

I hope I am wrong, but I am already sensing dissension in the ranks.  I have been to the practice scrimmage, both exhibitions and the first game, but let's back up even farther.

 

After last season, there was a lot of talk about Trey being the PG this year.  In his initial podcasts, he talked about how hard he has been working at PG and how excited he is to take that next step.  Then, enters Verge.  And suddenly Verge is getting all the hype.   And Trey is suddenly seen as more of "role" guy playing the SG.

 

Then the practice scrimmage, where Verge played one-on-one hero ball almost the entire game (much like last night).  Trey only shot 1 or 2 shots all night if i recall.

 

Then the first 2 exhibitions.  Verge played well and I thought distributed pretty well too.  But there were "looks" and "body language" from (and between) Verge, Trey and Bryce that I started to notice.  Instances where one of them would call for the ball, and the other would ignore or dismiss it.  I distinctly remember late in Colorado game (after Verge had been playing well and getting a lot of attention) that Trey was bringing the ball up and Verge was clapping and yelling for him to pass the ball to him.  Trey looked at him and just kept going.  I've seen the similar things in reverse, where Verge had the ball and didn't pass to Trey.

 

And let's remember, if Trey is a bit sour that Verge "stole" his PG spot, then that is surely going to rub off on Bryce.  And Trey is close to Lat and the other returning players, so if Verge keeps up the "hero ball hog" role, I could see the dissension escalate dramatically.

 

With all this said, I must be clear I don't have any inside or direct info on any of this.  This could all be in my imagination.  All of this is just reading "tea leaves" and "body language", but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.  Clearly the guys did not play as a team last night, and maybe some of this dissension that had been brewing finally came out.  Time will tell if they can get it corrected and back on track. 

 

I saw the same things and had the same impression. I don't know if Trey is jealous of Verge for taking his spot, necessarily, but there is some obvious antipathy between Verge and the McGowens boys, and his body language in general makes me think Verge might be the problem. Running off the floor to not go through the handshake line last night was just the latest illustration.

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4 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

I hope I am wrong, but I am already sensing dissension in the ranks.  I have been to the practice scrimmage, both exhibitions and the first game, but let's back up even farther.

 

After last season, there was a lot of talk about Trey being the PG this year.  In his initial podcasts, he talked about how hard he has been working at PG and how excited he is to take that next step.  Then, enters Verge.  And suddenly Verge is getting all the hype.   And Trey is suddenly seen as more of "role" guy playing the SG.

 

Then the practice scrimmage, where Verge played one-on-one hero ball almost the entire game (much like last night).  Trey only shot 1 or 2 shots all night if i recall.

 

Then the first 2 exhibitions.  Verge played well and I thought distributed pretty well too.  But there were "looks" and "body language" from (and between) Verge, Trey and Bryce that I started to notice.  Instances where one of them would call for the ball, and the other would ignore or dismiss it.  I distinctly remember late in Colorado game (after Verge had been playing well and getting a lot of attention) that Trey was bringing the ball up and Verge was clapping and yelling for him to pass the ball to him.  Trey looked at him and just kept going.  I've seen the similar things in reverse, where Verge had the ball and didn't pass to Trey.

 

And let's remember, if Trey is a bit sour that Verge "stole" his PG spot, then that is surely going to rub off on Bryce.  And Trey is close to Lat and the other returning players, so if Verge keeps up the "hero ball hog" role, I could see the dissension escalate dramatically.

 

With all this said, I must be clear I don't have any inside or direct info on any of this.  This could all be in my imagination.  All of this is just reading "tea leaves" and "body language", but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.  Clearly the guys did not play as a team last night, and maybe some of this dissension that had been brewing finally came out.  Time will tell if they can get it corrected and back on track. 

Unfortunately I’ve noticed the same things, beginning with the open practice.

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8 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

This didn't move past scoring 47 points vs UC Riverside on opening night in my list of worst and embarrassing performances. 

 

I've seen Husker teams in a discombobulated funk before. But last night was unique. I don't ever recall two guys just out there doing their own thing all night long.

 

I've seen pickup games at the rec that had more teamwork and less hero-ball than we saw last night. It was disgusting.

 

If this happens all year long, I won't renew my tickets. I'm not gonna shell out my hard-earned money to watch shitty basketball for the rest of my life. It's one thing to lose. It's another thing to play like that. And that was an embarrassment. It was an embarrassment even if we had pulled out a win. A win would not have mollified me. Even if we'd won, I'd still be pissed.

 

And Fred better get this situation under control, because there are a couple of players on the team who cannot co-exist with each other right now.

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4 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I saw the same things and had the same impression. I don't know if Trey is jealous of Verge for taking his spot, necessarily, but there is some obvious antipathy between Verge and the McGowens boys, and his body language in general makes me think Verge might be the problem. Running off the floor to not go through the handshake line last night was just the latest illustration.

In my mind the only solution is time on the bench.

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29 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I've seen Husker teams in a discombobulated funk before. But last night was unique. I don't ever recall two guys just out there doing their own thing all night long.

 

I've seen pickup games at the rec that had more teamwork and less hero-ball than we saw last night. It was disgusting.

 

If this happens all year long, I won't renew my tickets. I'm not gonna shell out my hard-earned money to watch shitty basketball for the rest of my life. It's one thing to lose. It's another thing to play like that. And that was an embarrassment. It was an embarrassment even if we had pulled out a win. A win would not have mollified me. Even if we'd won, I'd still be pissed.

 

And Fred better get this situation under control, because there are a couple of players on the team who cannot co-exist with each other right now.

 

Damn Norm, you have nailed it with your OP and now this one. Wish I could give you more votes. I’m of the exact same mind - I would have been just as pissed if they had luck-boxed their way into a win last night. Completely disgusted by the approach of 2 players specifically. Fred had better get his arms around this immediately or this thing will tank quickly.

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7 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I saw the same things and had the same impression. I don't know if Trey is jealous of Verge for taking his spot, necessarily, but there is some obvious antipathy between Verge and the McGowens boys, and his body language in general makes me think Verge might be the problem. Running off the floor to not go through the handshake line last night was just the latest illustration.

Kobe went and grabbed him and got him in line.  That whose “team it should be”

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I feel like there is a lot of piling on Verge here. Maybe because of the last possession.

 

Was Verge guilty of hero ball? Yes. Did he also lead the team in assists and rebounds (as the shortest player)? Yes.  Was there someone else who took 18 shots and had 0 assists? Yes.

 

Plenty of room for improvement from plenty of players. 
 

Coaches too. I used to think that Timmy could be too quick to pull players for a single bad play or mistake. But maybe Fred could use that strategy to break some habits and make some guys figure out they need to play within what they’re coached to do.

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On 11/10/2021 at 8:35 AM, hhcmatt said:

This didn't move past scoring 47 points vs UC Riverside on opening night in my list of worst and embarrassing performances. 


I debated this too, but ultimately, what put this past the UC Riverside game for me, was what Nebraska had in terms of players on their team in the respective years.  

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15 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

And Fred better get this situation under control, because there are a couple of players on the team who cannot co-exist with each other right now.

 

The sharpest arrow in the coach's quiver is the bench.  Fred needs to pull it out and sit Verge, Trey, and Bryce until they can figure out how to play team ball together.  Play the guys that will run the offense the way it's supposed to be run...EVEN IF IT MEANS LOSING GAMES in the short term!  Play Kobe and Keon...hell, put in Piatkowski if he's willing to do things the way he's coached.  Never thought I'd say it, but this team really misses Thor right now; without him the movement is terrible because there are too many ball-stoppers on the floor.  If they don't get this figured out, this will be another lost season before we even get to B1G play.    

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