The Chicken or the Egg

[Handy Johnson]

Navin R.’s post got me to thinking about another pressing issue. Set aside championships for a minute, who’s more likely to simply have a WINNING record first Fred/Frost? I’d say the smart money is on Fred. Secondly who’s most likely to be shown the door? Far too many of us thought Frost would emulate his arc of success at UCF by just walking through the door. You can’t keep someone around at 5 mil a year (even the prodigal son) if he posts 5 straight losing seasons... Hoops, talent wise is trending upward, the dearth of Offensive playmakers for Frost is startling. 

[Swan88]

Trashing Frost on a basketball board?

Over on Red Sea Scrolls, every basketball thread and every baseball thread turns into a few posters trashing Frost.  Can't have a decent thread celebrating some good things.  Heck, there was (as I recall) one basketball thread where one poster had over 20 posts trashing Frost.

Please don't do that here.  Please!  Please!

[Art Vandalay]

Frost will have a winning season this year and beat out Fred who will do the same. Zero doubt in my mind on either

[cornfed24-7]

I guess my thoughts on Frost and where the football team was when he got here are/were he needs about a decade.

[Handy Johnson]

6 hours ago, Swan88 said:

Trashing Frost on a basketball board?

Over on Red Sea Scrolls, every basketball thread and every baseball thread turns into a few posters trashing Frost.  Can't have a decent thread celebrating some good things.  Heck, there was (as I recall) one basketball thread where one poster had over 20 posts trashing Frost.

Please don't do that here.  Please!  Please!

I’m in no way trying to trash Coach Frost. I’m a BIG fan, but here’s the reality. He’ll be hard pressed to win 4/5 games this year, then you’re starting a walk on QB next year from Kearney Catholic & about 9 new starters on defense. When do we stop getting beat by Iowa & Minnesota...? Hoiberg conversely will have us .500 or better next season then the sky’s the limit. 

[Art Vandalay]

6 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

I’m in no way trying to trash Coach Frost. I’m a BIG fan, but here’s the reality. He’ll be hard pressed to win 4/5 games this year, then you’re starting a walk on QB next year from Kearney Catholic & about 9 new starters on defense. When do we stop getting beat by Iowa & Minnesota...? Hoiberg conversely will have us .500 or better next season then the sky’s the limit. 

He will easily win more than 4-5 games. Haarberg is not a walk on, had very nice D1 offers and Clemson kicked the tires. Smothers is young but talented too. Defense will have at least 6 guys coming back next year with many more experienced guys.

[Handy Johnson]

1 minute ago, Art Vandalay said:

He will easily win more than 4-5 games. Haarberg is not a walk on, had very nice D1 offers and Clemson kicked the tires. Smothers is young but talented too. Defense will have at least 6 guys coming back next year with many more experienced guys.

I appreciate your optimism, but as the late great Dennis Green once said “the proof is in the pudding.”

[Swan88]

1 hour ago, Handy Johnson said:

I appreciate your optimism, but as the late great Dennis Green once said “the proof is in the pudding.”

Ha!  Sounds like the beginnings of a trash intent/effort to me.

By the way, here’s something we can take to the bank: if/when Frost leaves, all his prior successes (combined with what he’s learned here, the hard way) will result in great success wherever he goes—and all us geniuses will be belly-aching that we should have never let him go!

[Go Big Fred]

Frost gets 5 Years at minimum, However I think the Football team will finish 6-6 and I struggle to see 7 wins on that schedule, We dont know Basketballs schedule yet but I feel good about going above 500

[tcp]

nothing in football this year with that schedule. be happy if they're competitive. 

 

basketball probably a year away, but easier to turn around than football and much more likely to sooner. 

 

i don't think Frost is the dude, but he'll get a few more years to try. But Hoiberg's beating him to the promised land. 

 

 

[HB]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:10 PM, Handy Johnson said:

I appreciate your optimism, but as the late great Dennis Green once said “the proof is in the pudding.”

Well, if that’s your standard, we just finished 14th in hoops two years in a  row.  

[Handy Johnson]

9 hours ago, HB said:

Well, if that’s your standard, we just finished 14th in hoops two years in a  row.  

Not only that but Fred has Coached the only 20 loss teams in Nebraska history. I didn’t expect to struggle to that degree but I have more faith in what he’s accomplished than Frost. Football could EASILY have it’s 5th straight losing season, with little to look forward to next year. I’m thrilled we have them BOTH, but Scott needs some big wins or his days here could be numbered...

[busticket]

On 5/29/2021 at 5:20 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

I guess my thoughts on Frost and where the football team was when he got here are/were he needs about a decade.

When I hear people say this I just shake my head.  When in the history of college football has anyone seen a coach take 10 years to turn around a program, much less a blue blood?

 

it took Bill Snyder 3 years to post a winning record at arguably the worst program in CFB history at the time.  Granted, he is the gold standard for turnarounds but that is where the goal posts are for turning a program around.

 

Now on the basketball side of things, Fred basically went scorched earth when he only had Thor as a returning player year 1.  After watching for two years, I see a team that is having roster issues (shocker!) but the coaching strategy seems like it is creating good opportunities for the players to be successful.  The roster now appears to be stabilizing and a nice group of players is coming in.  Hopefully good coaching + better players = significantly better results.  We all know life is not always that neat and clean because chemistry is important.  Still, it appears the pieces are coming together for men’s hoops.

Edited June 1, 2021 by busticket

[cornfed24-7]

10 hours ago, busticket said:

When I hear people say this I just shake my head.  When in the history of college football has anyone seen a coach take 10 years to turn around a program, much less a blue blood?

How long did it take Oklahoma, Alabama, or currently Michigan? I shake my head at people who can't see how far Nebraska has fallen and how long it will take to build them back. 

[Norm Peterson]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:10 PM, Handy Johnson said:

I appreciate your optimism, but as the late great Dennis Green once said “the proof is in the pudding.”

Dennis Green wasn't the first to say that.

[HuscurAdam]

Since I think they both have winning records this year, the better question is...who has a winning CONFERENCE record first?  Can Frost get to 5 B1G wins this year?  Can Hoiberg get 11?  

 

My gut says Hoiberg gets it done, but Frost falls a game short in 2021.

[hhcmatt]

'Chicken or the egg ' can be used as a metahpor used to describe a situation where it's undetermined which of two things is either the cause or the effect.

The success of either the football or basketball teams is mostly unrelated; the thread title doesn't work.

[Norm Peterson]

Just now, hhcmatt said:

'Chicken or the egg ' can be used as a metahpor used to describe a situation where it's undetermined which of two things is either the cause or the effect.

The success of either the football or basketball teams is mostly unrelated; the thread title doesn't work.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to be *that* guy. Thanks for being *that* guy for me. 

[49r]

Husker Hoops Central is nothing if not for its pedantry

[aphilso1]

Hoiberg was a proven commodity at time of hire and Frost was not. Hoiberg's recruiting is trending upward while Frost's level of recruiting still seems kind of TBD.  Basketball is easier to turn around due to the smaller roster.  For all these reasons, I vote HCFH.

 

Full disclosure: I was never sold on Frost as a "can't miss hire."  He inherited great players and a great system at Oregon.  He was handed the keys to a Maserati and didn't crash it.  That is more than a lot of coaches do, but not something that screams "elite offensive mind" to me.  Then he landed a fantastic job for a first time head coach looking to build a resume; he inherited a team that on paper looked horrible coming off of the infamous 0-12 season, but was loaded with talent and knew how to win (10-4, 12-1, 9-4 in the three seasons prior to 0-12).  UCF was a program poised for a quick rebound, and whatever coach was at the helm for the rebound would be lauded as a miracle worker.

 

I don't intend any of that to be a knock on Frost.  Most up-and-coming coaches also had good luck to help build their resume.  But it is a reminder that there's a big difference between hiring a young, up-and-coming coach and a proven commodity.  I remember debating a lot with co-workers and friends who all thought Frost was a surefire bet to turn the program around.  I was more on the fence in whether he would ultimately work out, but agreed that he should be Moos' first offer given the combination of him being a famous alum and the hottest name in coaching at the time. 

 

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

'Chicken or the egg ' can be used as a metahpor used to describe a situation where it's undetermined which of two things is either the cause or the effect.

The success of either the football or basketball teams is mostly unrelated; the thread title doesn't work.

It’s a play on words like sharpest knife on the tree, or brightest bulb in the drawer. An old gag I thought was fairly obvious...

Edited June 1, 2021 by Handy Johnson

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Dennis Green wasn't the first to say that.

No he wasn’t, but no one was more full of s**t than when Denny said it. That’s part of its charm...

[HuskerFever]

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

'Chicken or the egg ' can be used as a metahpor used to describe a situation where it's undetermined which of two things is either the cause or the effect.

The success of either the football or basketball teams is mostly unrelated; the thread title doesn't work.

 

I prefer mine scrambled. But I'll go with Eggs Benedict on occasion.

[royalfan]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:52 AM, Handy Johnson said:

Navin R.’s post got me to thinking about another pressing issue. Set aside championships for a minute, who’s more likely to simply have a WINNING record first Fred/Frost? I’d say the smart money is on Fred. Secondly who’s most likely to be shown the door? Far too many of us thought Frost would emulate his arc of success at UCF by just walking through the door. You can’t keep someone around at 5 mil a year (even the prodigal son) if he posts 5 straight losing seasons... Hoops, talent wise is trending upward, the dearth of Offensive playmakers for Frost is startling. 

The WR corps last year resembled an elite intramural flag football wide out corps.  When nobody is a threat to get open, the defense can do a lot of things to stop you.   (I am not considering Robinson a WR)

[busticket]

5 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

How long did it take Oklahoma, Alabama, or currently Michigan? I shake my head at people who can't see how far Nebraska has fallen and how long it will take to build them back. 

For Oklahoma it was 5 years.  Gibbs last season he went .500 and got fired.  And he was navigating NCAA probation from Switzerland.  Schnellenberger went .500 the one year her was there.  Then the Blake train wreck came (3 seasons 12-22, all losing records). Then they hired Stoops and he fixed it.  They had at least as bad of a mess as us and got it fixed in 5.  It is all about getting the right coach.