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I'm not sure this board is the place for this... but I do really love all you guys and you seem like super rational, fun people. 

Anyways, I have never known where to stand on this issue. And I am admittedly a bit more "left-leaning," and "progressive." But some of this worry seems like a bit too much? I think "Redskins," the one that started all of this, was highly offensive and that kinda shoulda been an open and shut "case." 

But like, Warriors, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, Seminoles, etc....? I don't know? 

I am also a Social Studies teacher - so I am well versed and well aware of the historical context and monstrosities committed by American settlers and the American Government. I guess I would just ask - where is this coming from? Is it coming from the tribal councils themselves? If so, probably important that we address this and I agree, phase this stuff out. But is it just coming from a bunch of "woke-twitter-types?"

I don't know... interesting, nuanced issue. 

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21 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I'm not sure this board is the place for this... but I do really love all you guys and you seem like super rational, fun people. 

Anyways, I have never known where to stand on this issue. And I am admittedly a bit more "left-leaning," and "progressive." But some of this worry seems like a bit too much? I think "Redskins," the one that started all of this, was highly offensive and that kinda shoulda been an open and shut "case." 

But like, Warriors, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, Seminoles, etc....? I don't know? 

I am also a Social Studies teacher - so I am well versed and well aware of the historical context and monstrosities committed by American settlers and the American Government. I guess I would just ask - where is this coming from? Is it coming from the tribal councils themselves? If so, probably important that we address this and I agree, phase this stuff out. But is it just coming from a bunch of "woke-twitter-types?"

I don't know... interesting, nuanced issue. 

It's about getting permission. In FSU's case, the university worked with the Seminole tribe to make sure they had permission and that they had the imagery, history and other representations correct without causing offense.

 

The best example for Warriors was Arapahoe High School in Denver. AHS worked with the Arapahoe tribe to develop images, logos, mascots and other "traditions" that the tribe eventually approved for use by the school and its athletic teams. 

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2 minutes ago, jayschool said:

It's about getting permission. In FSU's case, the university worked with the Seminole tribe to make sure they had permission and that they had the imagery, history and other representations correct without causing offense.

 

The best example for Warriors was Arapahoe High School in Denver. AHS worked with the Arapahoe tribe to develop images, logos, mascots and other "traditions" that the tribe eventually approved for use by the school and its athletic teams. 

And this is the way to do it. 

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The guy featured in this story, Richie Plass, was an acquaintance of mine. The story details his life as both a drummer for the Wolf River and Flying Feather bands, and as an activist who spent his own money and time traveling the country talking to high school students about their school's use of Native American imagery and words. I met him at several journalism conferences and talked to him extensively about his activism and where it came from. He had a display of "Injun" imagery from America's history, and it was compelling and convincing. My company's booth was often next to or in close vicinity to his, and our logo features an eagle feather, so he really wanted a t-shirt. I gave him one. I run a non-profit affiliated with the University of Iowa, thus my ability to teach sports writing there.

 

He will be missed, as will his activism and clarity about why native American symbolism needs to be a conversation we have in schools and other places where it's used.

 

Here's Richie playing drums with Flying Feathers, "Hey, Indian Man."

 

Edited by jayschool
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Just pray that PETA doesn't start a movement to ban animal names being used as mascots. If that happens the range of names gets paired down to supernatual beings like demons and angels and non-descript terms like Cornhuskers. Good thing we are safe!

Edited by KZRider
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1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Indians

 

Well...this one is like calling Mark "Michael" instead of his actual name for their entire life. Indians originate from India; Natives to America never had a connection to India.

 

That aside, it's kind of weird to name a team after a mass group of people. New Jersey Caucasians just has a weird ring to it.

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1 minute ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Well...this one is like calling Mark "Michael" instead of his actual name for their entire life. Indians originate from India; Natives to America never had a connection to India.

 

That aside, it's kind of weird to name a team after a mass group of people. New Jersey Caucasians just has a weird ring to it.

Agreed. Especially with the egregious caricature the Cleveland Indians had as a mascot. 

Edited by basketballjones
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4 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Well...this one is like calling Mark "Michael" instead of his actual name for their entire life. Indians originate from India; Natives to America never had a connection to India.

 

That aside, it's kind of weird to name a team after a mass group of people. New Jersey Caucasians just has a weird ring to it.

I think we all know that New Jersey would be the Jersey “spray tans” but that’s probably culturally incentive as well. 🤷

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7 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Warriors is weird to include - unless they use Native American imagery. Never heard any pressure on Golden State to change their name, also the term is pretty vague...

More importantly when the opposing team of the spray tans travels instead of cheering everyone yells “Hey!!!  I’m walken here!!!”

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6 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

So what happens to towns in Nebraska that are named after an Indian Chief (Red Cloud) or Tribes or a Broken Bow?

 

It's all about context and having a conversation with stakeholders. Was Red Cloud a tribute or a slur? Or something in between? I'm guessing it was named after the Lakota leader as a tribute, and that both the Sioux and the Pawnee who lived in that area view it as such. But someone could certainly ask.

 

I'm more worried about Fucking, Austria, which last year was forced by inveterate fornicators to change its name to Fugging. The fuggers.

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3 minutes ago, jayschool said:

It's all about context and having a conversation with stakeholders. Was Red Cloud a tribute or a slur? Or something in between? I'm guessing it was named after the Lakota leader as a tribute, and that both the Sioux and the Pawnee who lived in that area view it as such. But someone could certainly ask.

 

I'm more worried about Fucking, Austria, which last year was forced by inveterate fornicators to change its name to Fugging. The fuggers.

As someone who works with invertebrates I offended by this!  (did I do that right?)

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3 minutes ago, jayschool said:

It's all about context and having a conversation with stakeholders. Was Red Cloud a tribute or a slur? Or something in between? I'm guessing it was named after the Lakota leader as a tribute, and that both the Sioux and the Pawnee who lived in that area view it as such. But someone could certainly ask.

 

I'm more worried about Fucking, Austria, which last year was forced by inveterate fornicators to change its name to Fugging. The fuggers.

Red Cloud's Mascot is the Warriors. Is that okay?  Red Cloud was been invited to South Dakota to play basketball in a tourament with other native teams. I don't remember the time line when this took place.. So I don't see why they should have to rename thier school mascot.

 

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Just now, Bugeaters1 said:

Red Cloud's Mascot is the Warriors. Is that okay?  Red Cloud was been invited to South Dakota to play basketball in a tourament with other native teams. I don't remember the time line when this took place.. So I don't see why they should have to rename thier school mascot.

 

I'm not sure what happened other than they went to a basketball tournament. Were they turned away? If so, I'd need to know more context about why, what conversations took place, the reasoning behind it all, etc. 

 

I think sometimes, as a nation, we choose to judge a situation without knowing all the context around that situation and why people made decisions relative to the situation.

 

I'm not the "okay" police in this situation because I don't know the whole story. If you're asking about "Warriors," see my previous post about how Arapahoe High School in the Littleton, Colorado school district handled criticism of being called the Arapahoe Warriors. They entered into a conversation with the tribe and they settled on proper representation in imagery, etc., so they're still called the "Warriors." The Arapahoe tribe even blessed the school's campus in a ceremony.

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2 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

From what I can remeber about the tourament. Red Cloud was invited to play against other town named Red Cloud. My point is if the Native American are okay with Red Cloud being called the Warriors. The State shouldn't butt in. 

I'm trying to find when they played in So. Dakota.

 

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To bring this back to a basketball oriented discussion I will recommend a book on the impact "Rez" ball has upon the Navajo communities in Arizona.                                                                                                  https://journalstar.com/entertainment/books/review-canyon-dreams-deeper-than-sports/article_5539be6b-f967-5cd8-973a-8c5270fb2017.html

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