Why the hate

[basketballjones]

43 minutes ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

 

I would have actually been 100% on board with your opinion until the last handful of games since Teddy returned from suspension.  He's been incredibly efficient and shooting above 50% from the field.  He really hasn't been forcing a ton of shots and the ones he have, you live with if you get him consistently shooting north of 50%.  His passing in the 2nd half of Penn. St. was phenomenal.  If this is the new Teddy and the one we get for the rest of this year and next, sign me up as I don't think this version of Teddy Allen limits the ceiling of this team one bit.

Sure hope you're right. But I'm not sure how great of a sign it is that your best player has to be "suspended," to get things right. And then after he's "got right" we're still 1-6. With that win coming from the 12th place team in the conference. 

Alright, I'm just arguing to argue at this point, so I'm out. Must have not got much sleep. 

[cornfed24-7]

53 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

We had 38 points in the first half, 28 of his. 

When he scored 13 in the second half, the rest of the team scored 32. 

More stats of 1st half for you.

Teddy - 11-14 fg, 3-4 3pt, 0 TO

Team - 4 -15 fg, 1-8 3pt, 9 TO

Teddy was not the problem. 

[basketballjones]

1 minute ago, cornfed24-7 said:

More stats of 1st half for you.

Teddy - 11-14 fg, 3-4 3pt, 0 TO

Team - 4 -15 fg, 1-8 3pt, 9 TO

Teddy was not the problem. 

I'm not sure that goes against my argument that he doesn't allow others to get in the flow. 

Wait, I said I'm done for the day! *logs out*

[jimmykc]

Actually those stats would seem to indicate that if Teddy would have shot more in the second half we would have probably won. Stats can pretty much prove any point one wishes to make. Anyone want to guess how many he will score tonight? I'll guess 12. 

[cornfed24-7]

Just now, basketballjones said:

I'm not sure that goes against my argument that he doesn't allow others to get in the flow. 

Wait, I said I'm done for the day! *logs out*

All I'm saying is, in this game, when others got a chance they turned the ball over. Especially in the 1st half. You seem to be arguing, in this game, it would have been beneficial for him to share the ball more. While what I saw was the ONLY reason we were in that game was because of, not despite, Teddy Allen.

[Jacob Padilla]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Define hate....? I don't "hate," Teddy Allen. I am incredibly proud of the person he seems to have become after all the trials and tribulations of his youth and early career. He's also been the one fun thing to watch about this Husker squad this year. 

However - I do not believe that a team with Teddy Allen on it, taking most of your shots, and being your "guy," can ever be good. That's not hate. That's my opinion based off of experience and observation. He's streaky, inconsistent, and plays out of the flow of the offense. If he is not making shots, you're donezo because he's gonna keep shooting. And if he is, most of them just come at random times from random places, and no one else gets in the flow (see, Penn State from two nights ago). 

 

Teddy Allen is scoring 0.967 points per possession, which Synergy classifies as "very good" and in the 73rd percentile. He's "very good" both in the halfcourt and in transition.

 

He's in the 72nd percentile or better in each of his top four play types (spot up = 1.033 PPP, 72%; transition = 1.173 PPP, 74%; off screen = 1.128, 76%; P&R ball-handler = 0.921, 82%). He's also in the 64th percentile in isolation after that Penn State game, scoring 0.867 PPP ("good"). Teddy is above average at almost everything he does offensively. The man-to-man defense and turnover issues are a problem, but there are a lot of talented players that struggle in those areas yet still succeed. If you can't find a way to win with that, that's probably more of a you problem than a Teddy one. He's the least of Nebraska's problems, especially with the way he's been playing the last several games.

 

I think people get too caught up on the 1, 2 or 3 plays a game that look really bad. He's still a net positive even with a bad shot here and there, and honestly, some of those "bad shots" have a better chance of going in than a lot of the other things Nebraska has been doing on offense. Between shot attempts, free-throw attempts, assists and turnovers, Teddy's using up roughly 20 possessions per game. Nebraska is averaging 74.4 possessions per game. Other guys have plenty of opportunities to stay involved.

[OmahaHusker]

19 minutes ago, Jacob Padilla said:

 

Teddy Allen is scoring 0.967 points per possession, which Synergy classifies as "very good" and in the 73rd percentile. He's "very good" both in the halfcourt and in transition.

 

He's in the 72nd percentile or better in each of his top four play types (spot up = 1.033 PPP, 72%; transition = 1.173 PPP, 74%; off screen = 1.128, 76%; P&R ball-handler = 0.921, 82%). He's also in the 64th percentile in isolation after that Penn State game, scoring 0.867 PPP ("good"). Teddy is above average at almost everything he does offensively. The man-to-man defense and turnover issues are a problem, but there are a lot of talented players that struggle in those areas yet still succeed. If you can't find a way to win with that, that's probably more of a you problem than a Teddy one. He's the least of Nebraska's problems, especially with the way he's been playing the last several games.

 

I think people get too caught up on the 1, 2 or 3 plays a game that look really bad. He's still a net positive even with a bad shot here and there, and honestly, some of those "bad shots" have a better chance of going in than a lot of the other things Nebraska has been doing on offense. Between shot attempts, free-throw attempts, assists and turnovers, Teddy's using up roughly 20 possessions per game. Nebraska is averaging 74.4 possessions per game. Other guys have plenty of opportunities to stay involved.

Too many facts on a message board Jacob that’s not allowed sorry. You’ve been banned 24 hours. 

[49r]

2 hours ago, jimmykc said:

Actually those stats would seem to indicate that if Teddy would have shot more in the second half we would have probably won. Stats can pretty much prove any point one wishes to make. Anyone want to guess how many he will score tonight? I'll guess 12. 

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[aphilso1]

6 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Define hate....? I don't "hate," Teddy Allen. I am incredibly proud of the person he seems to have become after all the trials and tribulations of his youth and early career. He's also been the one fun thing to watch about this Husker squad this year. 

However - I do not believe that a team with Teddy Allen on it, taking most of your shots, and being your "guy," can ever be good. That's not hate. That's my opinion based off of experience and observation. He's streaky, inconsistent, and plays out of the flow of the offense. If he is not making shots, you're donezo because he's gonna keep shooting. And if he is, most of them just come at random times from random places, and no one else gets in the flow (see, Penn State from two nights ago). 

 

I kind of came to this conclusion too.  As a former foster parent, I have a soft spot for Boys Town kids.  I really, really, wanted him to succeed here.  But I think an apt comparison is that he's cut from the same mold as Carmelo Anthony's NBA** career.  He's going to give you some gaudy stats, keep you in games when you should be getting blown out otherwise, and even win some games on his own.  But the flip side is that he's hard to build a team around, and you will have a ceiling on how much team success you can have.

 

**Yes, I realize Carmelo won a title in college.  Maybe there's a better example because of this, but Melo is the first person that comes to mind when I think of Teddy's game and limitations.

 

[jayschool]

From a spectator's standpoint, Teddy is pretty much the only reason to watch.

 

With him, we're a bad team major conference team with a single entertaining player.

 

Without him, we are an unwatchable mess, a bad mid-major.

[Jacob Padilla]

1 hour ago, Jacob Padilla said:

 

Teddy Allen is scoring 0.967 points per possession, which Synergy classifies as "very good" and in the 73rd percentile. He's "very good" both in the halfcourt and in transition.

 

He's in the 72nd percentile or better in each of his top four play types (spot up = 1.033 PPP, 72%; transition = 1.173 PPP, 74%; off screen = 1.128, 76%; P&R ball-handler = 0.921, 82%). He's also in the 64th percentile in isolation after that Penn State game, scoring 0.867 PPP ("good"). Teddy is above average at almost everything he does offensively. The man-to-man defense and turnover issues are a problem, but there are a lot of talented players that struggle in those areas yet still succeed. If you can't find a way to win with that, that's probably more of a you problem than a Teddy one. He's the least of Nebraska's problems, especially with the way he's been playing the last several games.

 

I think people get too caught up on the 1, 2 or 3 plays a game that look really bad. He's still a net positive even with a bad shot here and there, and honestly, some of those "bad shots" have a better chance of going in than a lot of the other things Nebraska has been doing on offense. Between shot attempts, free-throw attempts, assists and turnovers, Teddy's using up roughly 20 possessions per game. Nebraska is averaging 74.4 possessions per game. Other guys have plenty of opportunities to stay involved.

 

To add even more to this, Teddy is an excellent pick-and-roll player as both a scorer and passer(1.109 PPP, 85th percentile) and he's also excellent as a catch-and-shoot player (1.304 PPP, 88th percentile). He doesn't have to dominate the ball or isolate all the time. Get him a competent roll man (Walker's filled this roll nicely) and a point guard who can consistently set him up for jumpers and you've got a really dynamic offensive player on your hands.

 

That being said, he's also one of the best off-the-dribble shooters in the Big Ten, so...

[basketballjones]

41 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I kind of came to this conclusion too.  As a former foster parent, I have a soft spot for Boys Town kids.  I really, really, wanted him to succeed here.  But I think an apt comparison is that he's cut from the same mold as Carmelo Anthony's NBA** career.  He's going to give you some gaudy stats, keep you in games when you should be getting blown out otherwise, and even win some games on his own.  But the flip side is that he's hard to build a team around, and you will have a ceiling on how much team success you can have.

 

**Yes, I realize Carmelo won a title in college.  Maybe there's a better example because of this, but Melo is the first person that comes to mind when I think of Teddy's game and limitations.

 

Ding. Ding. Ding

**Melo wasn't "Melo" in college. He played a role on that team, much like he does when he goes and does USA Olympic stuff. 

[basketballjones]

14 minutes ago, Jacob Padilla said:

 

To add even more to this, Teddy is an excellent pick-and-roll player as both a scorer and passer(1.109 PPP, 85th percentile) and he's also excellent as a catch-and-shoot player (1.304 PPP, 88th percentile). He doesn't have to dominate the ball or isolate all the time. Get him a competent roll man (Walker's filled this roll nicely) and a point guard who can consistently set him up for jumpers and you've got a really dynamic offensive player on your hands.

 

That being said, he's also one of the best off-the-dribble shooters in the Big Ten, so...

Sweet. Awesome. When that leads to us not being last place in the Big Ten please let me know. For now, my conclusion is still what I am going with - I don't think you can be a really good team if he is your best/go-to player. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Sweet. Awesome. When that leads to us not being last place in the Big Ten please let me know. For now, my conclusion is still what I am going with - I don't think you can be a really good team if he is your best/go-to player. 

 

Oh so it's Fred's fault because it took him an eternity of 1.5 years to land a Top 25 class.  Is that seriously your complaint?  

[Nebrasketball1979]

2 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I kind of came to this conclusion too.  As a former foster parent, I have a soft spot for Boys Town kids.  I really, really, wanted him to succeed here.  But I think an apt comparison is that he's cut from the same mold as Carmelo Anthony's NBA** career.  He's going to give you some gaudy stats, keep you in games when you should be getting blown out otherwise, and even win some games on his own.  But the flip side is that he's hard to build a team around, and you will have a ceiling on how much team success you can have.

 

**Yes, I realize Carmelo won a title in college.  Maybe there's a better example because of this, but Melo is the first person that comes to mind when I think of Teddy's game and limitations.

 

 

Hahaha, I was going to point out part of the flaw in your Melo comparison but then I hurt my eyes and finally got out the magnifying glass and saw your addendum.  I've often thought of the Melo comparison with Teddy.  However, what we saw last game was Teddy becoming a facilitator and making some very good passes that led to easy points.  He's also been shooting efficiently and north of 50%.  Now, if he's distributing the ball appropriately (i.e. not being a ball stopping offensive flow killer like Melo), what are we really complaining about?  Can Teddy carry this team on his own...no.  Can he be an important piece to a rebuilding team, absolutely.  We seem quick to anoint Bryce McGowens as a program savior (heck, Fred implied this himself) but I'm not seeing him as a generational talent.  Hopefully Bryce is another important piece to the puzzle and if you accumulate enough pieces, we will turn the corner.  I just don't get why we're expecting Teddy to carry this team by himself.  Outside of a Lebron or KD type talent, you need to surround talented players with other talented players.  Teddy is a talented player, Bryce seems to be a talented player but we need to add more talented players and specifically pieces that fit the right roles (i.e. spot up shooters, and a PG who can distribute).  It's really not that complicated.

 

 

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, LK1 said:

 

Oh so it's Fred's fault because it took him an eternity of 1.5 years to land a Top 25 class.  Is that seriously your complaint?  

What?

[aphilso1]

3 hours ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

 

Hahaha, I was going to point out part of the flaw in your Melo comparison but then I hurt my eyes and finally got out the magnifying glass and saw your addendum.  I've often thought of the Melo comparison with Teddy.  However, what we saw last game was Teddy becoming a facilitator and making some very good passes that led to easy points.  He's also been shooting efficiently and north of 50%.  Now, if he's distributing the ball appropriately (i.e. not being a ball stopping offensive flow killer like Melo), what are we really complaining about?  Can Teddy carry this team on his own...no.  Can he be an important piece to a rebuilding team, absolutely.  We seem quick to anoint Bryce McGowens as a program savior (heck, Fred implied this himself) but I'm not seeing him as a generational talent.  Hopefully Bryce is another important piece to the puzzle and if you accumulate enough pieces, we will turn the corner.  I just don't get why we're expecting Teddy to carry this team by himself.  Outside of a Lebron or KD type talent, you need to surround talented players with other talented players.  Teddy is a talented player, Bryce seems to be a talented player but we need to add more talented players and specifically pieces that fit the right roles (i.e. spot up shooters, and a PG who can distribute).  It's really not that complicated.

 

 

I like Teddy, so you’re not going to get much of an argument from me. And I hope he stays another year and rounds out his game. But there are obviously drawbacks to his game, which are very similar to the drawbacks in Melo’s game. And I have a hard time seeing what talent we can surround him with to create a great team.
Top shelf PG? He is at his best when possessing the ball for a high % of our offense. 
Shooters? He doesn’t kick it outside a whole lot when driving, nor does he create for others much while handling the ball on the perimeter. 
Elite big man? Maybe. He does seem to look to pass it off to cutters when driving. Sort of a pick and roll principle, without actually being a pick and roll. I could see an Ed Morrow type player really working well in combo with Teddy, so maybe that’s what we are missing most. 

[B-town hoopsfan]

I think our chances of a great team next year are very slim, teddy however could be part(a big part in fact) of us possibly being a bubble team next season I hope. Your looking at a starting five of trey,Bryce,teddy, Stevenson, and walker next year hopefully then Andre, banton, wilhelm, Keisei, mayen, maybe lakes as options off the bench. Maybe we add a high level transfer PG to That mix or maybe Bryce is that special kinda player that this offense needs as a distributor 

[Jacob Padilla]

13 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

I like Teddy, so you’re not going to get much of an argument from me. And I hope he stays another year and rounds out his game. But there are obviously drawbacks to his game, which are very similar to the drawbacks in Melo’s game. And I have a hard time seeing what talent we can surround him with to create a great team.
Top shelf PG? He is at his best when possessing the ball for a high % of our offense. 
Shooters? He doesn’t kick it outside a whole lot when driving, nor does he create for others much while handling the ball on the perimeter. 
Elite big man? Maybe. He does seem to look to pass it off to cutters when driving. Sort of a pick and roll principle, without actually being a pick and roll. I could see an Ed Morrow type player really working well in combo with Teddy, so maybe that’s what we are missing most. 

 

Look at the numbers I put above. Teddy is really effective off the ball as a catch-and-shoot player. He's very good running off screens. His most common play type this season (nearly a quarter of his possessions) is as a spot-up player where he's catching and shooting or attacking closeouts. A good point guard would allow Nebraska to take better advantage of his abilities in all those areas.

 

Better shooters around him would create more space for him to work with inside the arc. He's also been a noticeably more willing passer since he came back from his benching, getting into the paint and kicking out to guys on the perimeter quite often the last handful of games.

 

He is a good pick-and-roll player. A legit roll man threat would both allow him to take advantage of that part of his game more and it would create more opportunities for himself or to kick to a corner shooter with the roll man's gravity.

 

Heading into Thursday, Synergy had classified just 31 of his possessions as true isolation plays (8.3%). He's also not doing particularly well with the post touches so Nebraska can probably just take those out of the game plan. 

[basketballjones]

On 2/25/2021 at 2:00 PM, Jacob Padilla said:

 

Teddy Allen is scoring 0.967 points per possession, which Synergy classifies as "very good" and in the 73rd percentile. He's "very good" both in the halfcourt and in transition.

 

He's in the 72nd percentile or better in each of his top four play types (spot up = 1.033 PPP, 72%; transition = 1.173 PPP, 74%; off screen = 1.128, 76%; P&R ball-handler = 0.921, 82%). He's also in the 64th percentile in isolation after that Penn State game, scoring 0.867 PPP ("good"). Teddy is above average at almost everything he does offensively. The man-to-man defense and turnover issues are a problem, but there are a lot of talented players that struggle in those areas yet still succeed. If you can't find a way to win with that, that's probably more of a you problem than a Teddy one. He's the least of Nebraska's problems, especially with the way he's been playing the last several games.

 

I think people get too caught up on the 1, 2 or 3 plays a game that look really bad. He's still a net positive even with a bad shot here and there, and honestly, some of those "bad shots" have a better chance of going in than a lot of the other things Nebraska has been doing on offense. Between shot attempts, free-throw attempts, assists and turnovers, Teddy's using up roughly 20 possessions per game. Nebraska is averaging 74.4 possessions per game. Other guys have plenty of opportunities to stay involved.

Carmelo Anthony is a Top 90 player all time in NBA Efficiency rankings. 

Stats don't always tell the entire story. 

[colhusker]

One thing all of those stats don't tell, is when he or other do one of the bad things.  Yeah he could be .935 in some new metrics some geek thought up (for the record I am a science geek so calling others one is okay) but if the .065 comes in crunch time I don't care what the stat claims.  

[Ron Mexico]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:47 AM, hhcmatt said:

 

It's like 1? 2? people.  Jack is a passionate over-exaggerator of the scope of things.

Generating a story where there is none. The overwhelming majority where happy and thought it was a great accomplishment.

Why did Jack even give this any attention? Well because this is what Jack does on twitter. 

[aphilso1]

6 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Carmelo Anthony is a Top 90 player all time in NBA Efficiency rankings. 

Stats don't always tell the entire story. 

 

I like that you are fully embracing my Teddy-Melo comparison.  

[AuroranHusker]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:42 PM, jayschool said:

From a spectator's standpoint, Teddy is pretty much the only reason to watch.

 

With him, we're a bad team major conference team with a single entertaining player.

 

Without him, we are an unwatchable mess, a bad mid-major.

 

Do you want to revise any of that after two straight B1G wins, @jayschool?

 

 

[AuroranHusker]

4 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I like that you are fully embracing my Teddy-Melo comparison.  

 

There are similarities, but only can be found in Teddy's mind.