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I will never understand this type of thinking.  There are few people anywhere as invested in the fortunes of the Husker hoops program as Thor.  We need more guys on the team like him, not less, IMO.

Fred Hoiberg and Co. recruited Teddy Allen, Delano Banton and Derrick Walker in the first class. The second class includes Trey McGowens--which also results in the signing of his five star brothe

This is interesting and bodes well for the future.  Our offensive sets and philosophy clearly don't seem like they have been the issue this year.  Hopefully we have some more horses next year to bette

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3 hours ago, Art Vandalay said:


I’m sorry but calling for someone to lose their job is personal as it gets. I will never agree that is not trashing someone. I bet you’d feel the same if someone said you sucked at your job and should be fired. Would you take that personal?

 

Are you not happy with the 2021 class? At least on paper? I agree if they don’t pan out and 2022 class is underwhelming we need to look at doing something different.

 

hskr4life, just look in this thread alone they have called for Fred to fire some assistant coaches.

 

Some folks on here think it is cool to criticize things but if others try to defend said criticisms (even when there are good supporting facts) they are labeled sunshine pumping fools. It’s not to hard to look at both sides and have an adult conversation.

 

Personal was what people were getting about firing Tim Miles and Doc Sadler. Happy he's losing his job; he doesn't deserve the buyout; he should be paying us; etc. That's personal. And that's trashing someone. Saying there are some issues and some off-season changes probably need to be made is just being critical but I wouldn't classify that as trashing anyone.

 

Observing that a given set of recruits seem to have a common shortcoming is not trashing recruits, either. Or players. It's just making an observation.

 

FWIW, I disagree with HB on something. He seems to think that the experiment of having one assistant do all the recruiting and the other two just coaching is a failed paradigm. I think theoretically it could work. But, in order for it to work, the assistant who exclusively recruits needs to have a keen eye for talent in addition to being a schmoozer. I think Abdelmassih has the schmoozer thing down but I'm not sure he has the keen eye for talent that he needs. In which case, we probably need to have a second assistant involved heavily in recruiting and it would be nice to identify someone who could deliver a couple of blue-chip recruits for 2022. It's likely there's an off-season change even if nobody is fired because some assistants want to move up the coaching ladder and might look for other gigs on their own.

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36 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Personal was what people were getting about firing Tim Miles and Doc Sadler. Happy he's losing his job; he doesn't deserve the buyout; he should be paying us; etc. That's personal. And that's trashing someone. Saying there are some issues and some off-season changes probably need to be made is just being critical but I wouldn't classify that as trashing anyone.

 

Observing that a given set of recruits seem to have a common shortcoming is not trashing recruits, either. Or players. It's just making an observation.

 

FWIW, I disagree with HB on something. He seems to think that the experiment of having one assistant do all the recruiting and the other two just coaching is a failed paradigm. I think theoretically it could work. But, in order for it to work, the assistant who exclusively recruits needs to have a keen eye for talent in addition to being a schmoozer. I think Abdelmassih has the schmoozer thing down but I'm not sure he has the keen eye for talent that he needs. In which case, we probably need to have a second assistant involved heavily in recruiting and it would be nice to identify someone who could deliver a couple of blue-chip recruits for 2022. It's likely there's an off-season change even if nobody is fired because some assistants want to move up the coaching ladder and might look for other gigs on their own.

But isnt this the same formula they used at Iowa State regarding coach roles?  I mean gosh we are hauling in a Top 25 class... and our first ever 5 star...why are we talking about changing something?

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52 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Personal was what people were getting about firing Tim Miles and Doc Sadler. Happy he's losing his job; he doesn't deserve the buyout; he should be paying us; etc. That's personal. And that's trashing someone. Saying there are some issues and some off-season changes probably need to be made is just being critical but I wouldn't classify that as trashing anyone.

 

Observing that a given set of recruits seem to have a common shortcoming is not trashing recruits, either. Or players. It's just making an observation.

 

FWIW, I disagree with HB on something. He seems to think that the experiment of having one assistant do all the recruiting and the other two just coaching is a failed paradigm. I think theoretically it could work. But, in order for it to work, the assistant who exclusively recruits needs to have a keen eye for talent in addition to being a schmoozer. I think Abdelmassih has the schmoozer thing down but I'm not sure he has the keen eye for talent that he needs. In which case, we probably need to have a second assistant involved heavily in recruiting and it would be nice to identify someone who could deliver a couple of blue-chip recruits for 2022. It's likely there's an off-season change even if nobody is fired because some assistants want to move up the coaching ladder and might look for other gigs on their own.


Guess we’ll disagree. Saying someone is bad at their job and needs to be replaced is personal as hell. That is their livelihood and affects their family, does not get more personal than that. Just because they are not calling them names does not make it OK or not personal. 
 

Never debated that our first few recruiting classes have issues. I presented an opinion on why that was and why I think we need another year to asses things. He never responded to those but instead started the personal attacks (were deleted by the admin). Sometimes things are more complex than we suck let’s make changes.

 

Bottom line for me is Fred trusts his staff and I have faith in Fred so I’m going to give him ample time which in my world is more than 22 months.

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7 hours ago, ConkTrifecta3 said:

The disconnect I have is with jumping the gun on this staff's first full recruiting class, with a pandemic, with stopping for 30 days.. not having Walker for almost all year.. and we are supposed to be doing what???  On top of that against the league that is on its way according to Pomeroy as the most difficult EVER.  Can we maybe wait until at least next year to place judgement on these guys?  Please?  I mean dont you think thats just a little bit reasonable?


A million percent this.  
 

I start my grades next season.  That’s a complete roster with plenty of shooters, skill, and athleticism.  I anticipated a much better season, but I also anticipated Walker, a non con, and some semblance of home court advantage would take place. 
 

To not be impressed with this recruiting haul is mind blowing to me.  Anyone with eyes can see we have good pieces right now, but need more shooters on the perimeter next season.  

 

How many games have we had Walker?  Like 8? How are we playing now that we’ve gelled with him a bit?  

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4 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

But, in order for it to work, the assistant who exclusively recruits needs to have a keen eye for talent in addition to being a schmoozer. I think Abdelmassih has the schmoozer thing down but I'm not sure he has the keen eye for talent that he needs. In which case, we probably need to have a second assistant involved heavily in recruiting and it would be nice to identify someone who could deliver a couple of blue-chip recruits for 2022. It's likely there's an off-season change even if nobody is fired because some assistants want to move up the coaching ladder and might look for other gigs on their own.


I am also curious on this conclusion. Not saying your wrong but there is evidence in Matt’s favor unless his role has changed a lot since ISU. Iowa State has a good number of NBA guys and others playing professionally and Matt A was the main recruiter there correct? If you watched St John’s and the Big East you also know talent was not an issue there either (Mullins was real bad). So it seems like he has recruited top talent at both his previous jobs. Some of those guys were under the radar guys in which they had a good eye to identify.

 

I am not against having another AC help recruit and thought Gates might fill that need but Matt has a pretty good record of identifying and securing talent. At least on paper 2021 looks good too. Hopefully we keep that momentum.

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I didn't read the entire thread but a big part of the problem has been that the staff has tried to fix this quickly.  It was an unmitigated disaster heading into the 19-20 season no matter who was coaching it.  I like Miles, but it was a guaranteed disaster under him that year.  Hoiberg tried big swings and quick fixes that didn't work.  

 

He has gotten big 10 level athletes and hoped he could help them shoot better.  It hasn't worked.  Now he has to find the right balance between athletic and shooting.  It is not easy as everyone wants them.  But we need to be recruiting shooters that have the desire to defend an are not poor athletes.  And we need quick leapers in the middle to protect paint and rim run and finish a pick and roll.  

 

I will also say, that I am not certain that his style is a great fit in this league.  The coaching is so good, we. can't play fast very easily, and we cannot afford to take loose shots to play fast when the other team won't be.  It is more of a meat grinder type of league, than any other league.  It doesn't blend perfectly with the style we are wanting to play, but we have to find the right balance between playing with great pace and playing smart and not giving up too much on the efficiency end of things.  No matter what, you have to be willing to defend in this league.  

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7 hours ago, royalfan said:

I didn't read the entire thread but a big part of the problem has been that the staff has tried to fix this quickly.  It was an unmitigated disaster heading into the 19-20 season no matter who was coaching it.  I like Miles, but it was a guaranteed disaster under him that year.  Hoiberg tried big swings and quick fixes that didn't work.  

 

He has gotten big 10 level athletes and hoped he could help them shoot better.  It hasn't worked.  Now he has to find the right balance between athletic and shooting.  It is not easy as everyone wants them.  But we need to be recruiting shooters that have the desire to defend an are not poor athletes.  And we need quick leapers in the middle to protect paint and rim run and finish a pick and roll.  

 

I will also say, that I am not certain that his style is a great fit in this league.  The coaching is so good, we. can't play fast very easily, and we cannot afford to take loose shots to play fast when the other team won't be.  It is more of a meat grinder type of league, than any other league.  It doesn't blend perfectly with the style we are wanting to play, but we have to find the right balance between playing with great pace and playing smart and not giving up too much on the efficiency end of things.  No matter what, you have to be willing to defend in this league.  

I agree about the 2020 class... but how about 2021 class?  I think thats where judgement should start. 

 

Spot on about style.. you better be ready to D up. You can be fast- but you cant be finesse.  

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I shouldnt say you cant be finesse... the edge must be there on the other end of the floor.  I will say this and as much as I detest the team to the east of us- that is what we are looking to do, pace and space..  I dont think any of us would deny they would be top 3-6 in the league this year.  I wouldnt say his system isnt a good fit...I think he needs a couple of recruiting classes to find out for sure.. I think Fred and Doc compliment each other really well and before I say its not a great fit I think we need to see what the next 2 classes do.

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34 minutes ago, ConkTrifecta3 said:

I shouldnt say you cant be finesse... the edge must be there on the other end of the floor.  I will say this and as much as I detest the team to the east of us- that is what we are looking to do, pace and space..  I dont think any of us would deny they would be top 3-6 in the league this year.  I wouldnt say his system isnt a good fit...I think he needs a couple of recruiting classes to find out for sure.. I think Fred and Doc compliment each other really well and before I say its not a great fit I think we need to see what the next 2 classes do.


Agree here and will add Michigan State wants to play real fast and they defend too which is why they are normally top 3 in the league. Michigan and Illinois also like to play fast even though they both have great big men and can play both ways.

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Interesting stat titbit:  Tom Crean took over Indiana in 2008... I know there were some sanctions from Kelvin Sampson, but Crean played an uptempo style much like what we do... look at his first 5 yrs...

 

6-25   1-17

10-21  4-14

12-20  3-15

27-9  11-7     Sweet 16

29-7  14-4    Sweet 16

 

Not saying we are going to the Sweet 16.... sometimes however it takes a wee bit to get it going.

 

 

John Beilein.. 2 losing seasons in his first 3... same type of style

Edited by ConkTrifecta3
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1 minute ago, ConkTrifecta3 said:

Interesting stat titbit:  Tom Crean took over Indiana in 2008... I know there were some sanctions from Kelvin Sampson, but Crean played an uptempo style much like what we do... look at his first 5 yrs...

 

6-25   1-17

10-21  4-14

12-20  3-15

27-9  11-7     Sweet 16

29-7  14-4    Sweet 16

 

Not saying we are going to the Sweet 16.... sometimes however it takes a wee bit to get it going.

 

All I read was "WE'RE GOING TO THE SWEET 16!!!"

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27 minutes ago, jayschool said:

Dalano continues to play himself into a reserve role next year when Bryce arrives. And Teddy is establishing himself as a cornerstone upon which to build a competitive rotation in 21-22.

 

Dalano confuses me.  On this year's team, he does seem to be the best option we have to start at the 1.  And I know Fred likes positionless basketball, non-traditional PGs, etc etc etc (cue 'King and I' voice).  But I just cannot for the life of me figure out who Dalano is on offense and how he fits long-term.  He will be good for 1-2 passes per game that only he can make due to his length and vision at the top of the key.  But once he starts moving with the ball...yikes.  Accuracy on his passing drops like a rock.  And he isn't the greatest finisher at the rim, nor a good free throw shooter.  And we already knew he wasn't a good 3pt shooter.

 

I'm not advocating chasing the kid off.  He has enough raw tools to keep him an intriguing prospect all the way until his eligibility expires.  But man...I thought we would get more from him this year.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

I'm not advocating chasing the kid off.  He has enough raw tools to keep him an intriguing prospect all the way until his eligibility expires.  But man...I thought we would get more from him this year.

 

He's a pretty obvious Misfit Toy at the moment. He'll have to make a career decision about where he fits on the court. The only thing he can't do is shrink, so I suspect if he needs to slide over to the 3, he'll have to bulk up and get stronger, sacrifice a little quickness, and play stronger around the rim to convert to a soft 3. But by that time,his career's likely over anyway. 

 

The guards in the B1G are too good to be dinking around with a guy who requires about 6 feet of airspace during a dribble. I can see him moving down in weight class to a part of the division where his pocket's not so easily picked and the rims don't have as meaty a protective barrier. 

 

the B1G requires you to know who you are as a player. It is merciless on that score. 

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