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I will never understand this type of thinking.  There are few people anywhere as invested in the fortunes of the Husker hoops program as Thor.  We need more guys on the team like him, not less, IMO.

Fred Hoiberg and Co. recruited Teddy Allen, Delano Banton and Derrick Walker in the first class. The second class includes Trey McGowens--which also results in the signing of his five star brothe

This is interesting and bodes well for the future.  Our offensive sets and philosophy clearly don't seem like they have been the issue this year.  Hopefully we have some more horses next year to bette

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It's Wood. No s on the end.

If we get to the point with him or anyone at the end of the season where we tell them they should think about moving because they won't get to play here they have the right to stay here if they want. Our scholarships are guaranteed. While it's probably cool to hang with a friend at school most guys aren't here to sit for 4 years.

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9 hours ago, huskerbill85 said:

It would suck if we lose some guys. You look at some teams around the league both this year and years prior you see "older teams" who've had success. We need a core group of guys and let Hoiberg do his thing with transfers at key areas of need.

 

I agree with this.  Every year you hear stories about players in the Big Ten who have had lackluster careers who put it together in their senior year and lead their team to great things. Every. Year.

 

Having high levels of roster turnover is, has been and always will be a recipe for disaster.  You don't dump guys just because what's behind the curtain is almost always a repeat of what you had before with the guy already in your system.  Sure, turnover is inevitable, but the more guys you can get to stay the better.

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29 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I agree with this.  Every year you hear stories about players in the Big Ten who have had lackluster careers who put it together in their senior year and lead their team to great things. Every. Year.

 

Having high levels of roster turnover is, has been and always will be a recipe for disaster.  You don't dump guys just because what's behind the curtain is almost always a repeat of what you had before with the guy already in your system.  Sure, turnover is inevitable, but the more guys you can get to stay the better.

I can't upvote this enough. Rarely is the replacement an upgrade. We need to start seeing more guys stay for 4-5 years. We have been a revolving door for players who spend 1 or 2 seasons here, and it seems to happen almost every year.

 

Samari Curtis, Amir Harris, Nana Akenten, Kevin Cross, Jordy Tshimanga, Jeriah Horne, Bakari Evelyn, Tarin Smith, Jacob Hammond, Jervay Green, Dachon Burke, and Cam Mack.

 

Now, I know some of those guys dug their own grave in some regard, and many wound up at lower level D1 schools, but that is still a list of fairly talented players who left before their eligibility exhausted. The constant revolving door puts us in rebuild mode so often, making it almost impossible to sustain or build momentum. It'd be one thing if we were only getting 4 and 5 stars to sign and replace those listed above, but that's not the case, at least not yet. Imagine if we let or pushed Tai Webster out early? How about Brandon Ubel? What if Frank Kaminsky wasn't allowed to develop at Wisconsin? Some guys take more time than others. Who's to say that Yvan doesn't become a beast as a senior in 2 years?

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7 hours ago, jason2486 said:

I can't upvote this enough. Rarely is the replacement an upgrade. We need to start seeing more guys stay for 4-5 years. We have been a revolving door for players who spend 1 or 2 seasons here, and it seems to happen almost every year.

 

Samari Curtis, Amir Harris, Nana Akenten, Kevin Cross, Jordy Tshimanga, Jeriah Horne, Bakari Evelyn, Tarin Smith, Jacob Hammond, Jervay Green, Dachon Burke, and Cam Mack.

 

Now, I know some of those guys dug their own grave in some regard, and many wound up at lower level D1 schools, but that is still a list of fairly talented players who left before their eligibility exhausted. The constant revolving door puts us in rebuild mode so often, making it almost impossible to sustain or build momentum. It'd be one thing if we were only getting 4 and 5 stars to sign and replace those listed above, but that's not the case, at least not yet. Imagine if we let or pushed Tai Webster out early? How about Brandon Ubel? What if Frank Kaminsky wasn't allowed to develop at Wisconsin? Some guys take more time than others. Who's to say that Yvan doesn't become a beast as a senior in 2 years?

I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the need to keep players (I'd love to see Thor stick around next year, which is seemingly an unpopular opinion around here). What's the old saying about college basketball? Get old and stay old? We need to get old.

 

But I will be the one (of many) to say that Yvan will not become a beast as a senior. His skill level is low, and his hands are stones. That's not going to change drastically. Can he get better? Sure. But become a beast? No way.

Edited by atskooc
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34 minutes ago, atskooc said:

I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the need to keep players (I'd love to see Thor stick around next year, which is seemingly an unpopular opinion around here). What's the old saying about college basketball? Get old and stay old? We need to get old.

 

But I will be the one (of many) to say that Yvan will not become a beat as a senior. His skill level is low, and his hands are stones. That's not going to change drastically. Can he get better? Sure. But become a beast? No way.

 

We have a rotation we like to keep at 7-9 which means we have 4-6 guys who aren't playing. We can and will recruit over Yvan and it's up to those guys to be better than him and relegate him to the bench.  Same deal with Thor.  I tend to ride or die with those guys because they conduct themselves like pros; they're going to continue to show up whether or not they're playing and other guys need to earn their minutes. In theory, having these types of guys should push your 'more talented players.' 

 

From the looks of Andre's play last game, he gets this and is applying this. We need him to be the kind of player who starts or is 1b as the starting center next year because he's better than Yvan, not because Yvan transferred and someone has to play center.

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1 minute ago, hhcmatt said:

 

We have a rotation we like to keep at 7-9 which means we have 4-6 guys who aren't playing. We can and will recruit over Yvan and it's up to those guys to be better than him and relegate him to the bench.  Same deal with Thor.  I tend to ride or die with those guys because they conduct themselves like pros; they're going to continue to show up whether or not they're playing and other guys need to earn their minutes. In theory, having these types of guys should push your 'more talented players.' 

 

From the looks of Andre's play last game, he gets this and is applying this. We need him to be the kind of player who starts or is 1b as the starting center next year because he's better than Yvan, not because Yvan transferred and someone has to play center.

I agree.

 

I should have said that I also don't have a problem if Yvan stays the next couple years. That would certainly help us get "old."  But I don't think he's going to become a next-level player.

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I welcome the turnover in personnel.  We don't have enough of the 'type' of players Fred needs to run his offense.  We need 3 or 4 pure shooters that can hit the 3 with consistency.  We need a true post player that can rebound, defend the rim, and score in the paint. 

 

In the current group of players, there are several players that Fred can build with -- but none of them are 'cornerstone' pieces.  I think Trey McGowens, Lat Mayen, Derrick Walker, and Delano Banton are keepers -- the rest of the roster may change.

 

Next year, Keisei Tominaga, Bryce McGowens, and Wilheim Breidenbach should improve our 3-point shooting.  I look for Fred (and Matt) to bring in at least one or two more perimeter players and a 'big.'

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4 hours ago, jason2486 said:

I can't upvote this enough. Rarely is the replacement an upgrade. We need to start seeing more guys stay for 4-5 years. We have been a revolving door for players who spend 1 or 2 seasons here, and it seems to happen almost every year.

 

Samari Curtis, Amir Harris, Nana Akenten, Kevin Cross, Jordy Tshimanga, Jeriah Horne, Bakari Evelyn, Tarin Smith, Jacob Hammond, Jervay Green, Dachon Burke, and Cam Mack.

 

Now, I know some of those guys dug their own grave in some regard, and many wound up at lower level D1 schools, but that is still a list of fairly talented players who left before their eligibility exhausted. The constant revolving door puts us in rebuild mode so often, making it almost impossible to sustain or build momentum. It'd be one thing if we were only getting 4 and 5 stars to sign and replace those listed above, but that's not the case, at least not yet. Imagine if we let or pushed Tai Webster out early? How about Brandon Ubel? What if Frank Kaminsky wasn't allowed to develop at Wisconsin? Some guys take more time than others. Who's to say that Yvan doesn't become a beast as a senior in 2 years?

 

I agree with your list, sans Kevin Cross.  I said it at the time of transfer and will say it again -- his baseline skillset was poor enough that he really had no chance at developing into a solid B1G player.  He is averaging 33% from the floor overall and 18% on 3pt shots this year for Tulane.  And still is averaging less than 5 rebounds per game.  He is too small to rebound and defend the post, and not skilled enough to play on the wing.  

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8 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I agree with your list, sans Kevin Cross.  I said it at the time of transfer and will say it again -- his baseline skillset was poor enough that he really had no chance at developing into a solid B1G player.  He is averaging 33% from the floor overall and 18% on 3pt shots this year for Tulane.  And still is averaging less than 5 rebounds per game.  He is too small to rebound and defend the post, and not skilled enough to play on the wing.  

I agree but what players have left that have really gone on to do much or be a key player at another school or a starter that improved their situation?  I cant think of any and these were starters here so did we miss out on much besides seeing potential?

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9 hours ago, coughunter said:

I agree but what players have left that have really gone on to do much or be a key player at another school or a starter that improved their situation?  I cant think of any and these were starters here so did we miss out on much besides seeing potential?

 

Jordy is starting and averaging 8 boards/7 pts for a pretty good Dayton team.  

Horne has averaged double digit PPG in all three seasons since transferring out.  He's shooting 45% from 3pt range and 94% FTs this year for a Colorado team that is in the hunt to win the PAC12.

Some of the other guys haven't panned out quite yet at their new schools, but at least had a skillset that could be developed over time to *potentially* be a quality player down the road.  I'm not going to pull statistics on all of them, but I'd assume at least one or two are contributing enough to make us wish they were on our current roster.  

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10 hours ago, coughunter said:

I agree but what players have left that have really gone on to do much or be a key player at another school or a starter that improved their situation?  I cant think of any and these were starters here so did we miss out on much besides seeing potential?

 

Jeriah Horne has started 8 of 14 conference games for the Buffs.

 

Jeriah Horne
41 · Overland Park, KS · 4-9-98

    Ht Wt Yr G %Min ORtg %Poss %Shots eFG% TS% OR% DR% ARate TORate Blk% Stl% FC/40 FD/40 FTRate FTM-A Pct 2PM-A Pct 3PM-A Pct
2021
SF·PF
15 Colorado 
National Rank
6-7 220 Sr 20 61.8 118.9
168
19.9 23.3 59.0
145
62.4
110
4.0 21.2
200
8.0 13.9
422
0.5 1.7 1.9
151
2.9 19.3 30-32 .938 47-90 .522 34-76 .447
89
  Conference-only
Conference Rank
      13 63.1 120.0
8
19.0 22.4 60.4
5
63.2
6
3.1 20.5
7
7.8 13.4
20
0.7 2.0 1.8
11
2.7 18.9 18-20 .900 31-54 .574
13
22-52 .423
7
  vs. Tier A+B*       10 64.0 112.6 18.1 21.0 55.8 59.3 3.3 22.7 8.0 18.0 0.4 1.4 2.2 2.4 15.6 12-12 .999 16-33 .485 18-44 .409
  vs. Tier A*       5 66.5 92.1 19.5 20.2 51.4 56.4 4.4 25.4 5.2 27.9 0.0 0.5 2.1 2.8 21.6 8-8 .999 7-17 .412 8-20 .400
  Age: 22.7 (+0.1)   Similar: Akwasi Yeboah '20 (933), Cliff Tucker '11 (923), Jamil Wilson '13 (915), Katin Reinhardt '17 (915), Nathan Walkup '11 (914), More...
2020
PF
80 Tulsa 
National Rank
6-7 222 Jr 31 71.0 106.3 20.0 24.5
482
51.0 54.4 4.3 16.3 10.8 13.3
335
2.0 2.0 2.5
491
2.8 19.8 49-57 .860 63-123 .512 56-165 .339
  Conference-only
Conference Rank
      18 80.8
12
102.0 19.4 24.0
22
50.3
15
53.5
23
3.7 17.2
15
11.3 14.4
16
2.4
22
2.0 2.3
11
2.9 20.2 29-35 .829 36-69 .522
19
34-104 .327
  vs. Tier A+B*       13 75.6 94.3 16.4 20.0 43.6 47.3 3.0 15.6 9.7 14.8 1.7 1.7 1.7 2.4 18.6 16-19 .842 22-48 .458 15-54 .278
  vs. Tier A*       6 71.4 97.3 16.8 20.6 52.2 54.7 2.0 20.1 7.2 17.9 1.5 1.3 1.1 2.7 19.6 7-9 .778 12-25 .480 8-21 .381
  Age: 21.7 (+0.1)   Similar: Leyton Hammonds '16 (935), Donte Ingram '18 (932), Danjel Purifoy '17 (931), Rihards Kuksiks '10 (924), Kamren Belin '14 (923), More...
2019
PF·C
119 Tulsa 
National Rank
6-7 222 So 32 54.6 104.0 23.2 27.7
200
53.2 56.2 5.5 18.7
344
10.0 15.1 2.5 1.9 3.6 3.1 21.0 45-55 .818 66-131 .504 49-131 .374
444
  Conference-only
Conference Rank
      18 58.0 104.8 23.7
18
28.4
7
53.1 56.9 5.7 19.0
13
10.6 14.7 1.9 2.4
15
3.4 3.4 24.4 33-39 .846
4
40-80 .500 30-80 .375
17
  vs. Tier A+B*       14 55.8 103.0 21.7 24.2 54.5 57.7 5.0 16.2 10.5 17.8 2.7 2.0 3.7 3.3 27.7 22-28 .786 22-47 .468 22-54 .407
  vs. Tier A*       9 53.9 92.9 21.4 23.3 45.8 50.3 3.7 13.1 10.7 16.6 1.8 2.7 4.1 3.4 30.0 14-18 .778 14-30 .467 9-30 .300
  Age: 20.7 (+0.3)   Similar: Ognjen Miljkovic '15 (912), T.J. Cline '15 (910), Brian Oliver '11 (905), Isaiah Miles '15 (895), Byron Fulton '12 (895), More...
2017
PF·SF
107 Nebraska 6-7 222 Fr 28 26.1 94.8 19.9 22.4 50.0 51.2 2.9 14.8 6.4 21.0 0.7 1.3 3.1 2.6 13.9 10-15 .667 24-47 .511 20-61 .328
  Conference-only       17 33.5 93.1 20.1 23.2 48.3 49.3 3.4 14.3 4.9 20.0 0.0 1.4 2.4 2.5 12.8 7-11 .636 19-39 .487 15-47 .319
  vs. Tier A+B*       19 24.9 89.3 18.7 21.5 49.3 49.8 3.3 14.7 4.8 22.0 0.0 1.4 3.4 2.4 9.9 4-7 .571 17-35 .486 12-36 .333
  vs. Tier A*       14 25.0 101.5 18.8 21.7 55.6 55.9 3.8 15.0 3.8 22.7 0.0 1.4 3.5 2.3 9.3 3-5 .600 15-26 .577 10-28 .357
  Age: 18.7 (-0.7)   Similar: Tevian Jones '19 (902), Kyle Gaillard '10 (887), L.G. Gill '14 (885), Andre Malone '10 (885), Sheldon Jeter '13 (885), More...
  Career     111   134-159 .843 200-391 .512 159-433 .367
  vs. Tier A+B*     56   54-66 .818 77-163 .472 67-188 .356
  vs. Tier A*     34   32-40 .800 48-98 .490 35-99 .354
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Yeah Horne is the guy that most felt like "the one that got away."  Jordy too, but he seemed unhappy here so his transfer felt more inevitable.  Those are the two players off the list that, from a skillset perspective, felt like a sucker punch to lose.  Which is why I looked them both up and found that...yep...they both are contributing for a team that is a whole lot better than we are.

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26 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

Yeah Horne is the guy that most felt like "the one that got away."  Jordy too, but he seemed unhappy here so his transfer felt more inevitable.  Those are the two players off the list that, from a skillset perspective, felt like a sucker punch to lose.  Which is why I looked them both up and found that...yep...they both are contributing for a team that is a whole lot better than we are.

 

FWIW, both would have exhausted their eligibility last season if they had stayed.

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2 minutes ago, hugh42 said:

 

FWIW, both would have exhausted their eligibility last season if they had stayed.

 

Thanks to that blanket year of eligibility they're also both able to pull a Akoy Agau and finish their career wearing the scarlet and cream.

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Hate to say it because I think he has a lot of skill but Teddy needs to go. The juice is not worth the squeeze. 
 

He is not playing on the globetrotters although at times it appears he thinks he is. Arguably our best offensive player but I think in the long run the team is better off without him. 

Edited by huskerbaseball13
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37 minutes ago, hugh42 said:

 

FWIW, both would have exhausted their eligibility last season if they had stayed.

 

OK, how about Tom Allen then?  He's putting up 39% from three and 80% FT in the ACC.  Not as good as I would have expected, but still would be an adrenaline shot for our anemic offense.

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9 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

Hate to say it because I think he has a lot of skill but Teddy needs to go. The juice is not worth the squeeze. 
 

He is not playing on the globetrotters although at times it appears he thinks he is. Arguably our best offensive player but I think in the long run the team is better off without him. 

 

Gotta stop chasing off our most talented player each year if we want to progress at all.  Obviously Cam had his off-court issues, and Teddy too.  But a team full of Thors and Arops is not going to win any games.

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24 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

OK, how about Tom Allen then?  He's putting up 39% from three and 80% FT in the ACC.  Not as good as I would have expected, but still would be an adrenaline shot for our anemic offense.

 

Would have been nice to be able to keep Allen around, but he was gonzo as soon as Kenya left for UConn.  No way we would have been able to keep him in Lincoln.

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2 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

Jordy is starting and averaging 8 boards/7 pts for a pretty good Dayton team.  

Horne has averaged double digit PPG in all three seasons since transferring out.  He's shooting 45% from 3pt range and 94% FTs this year for a Colorado team that is in the hunt to win the PAC12.

Some of the other guys haven't panned out quite yet at their new schools, but at least had a skillset that could be developed over time to *potentially* be a quality player down the road.  I'm not going to pull statistics on all of them, but I'd assume at least one or two are contributing enough to make us wish they were on our current roster.  

Yeah not much players that are starters.  I  feel that players they got in lieu of them were upgrades

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Here is my take on who i think should be here next year.  I really think we need to keep in mind that this year really hurt because it was supposed to be a time to improve in some areas and develop court time and just get "older".  We still can do that regardless of the month break due to COVID.  Need to play as many games this year as possible for development.  Having said that:

 

MUST STAYS (players to build on):

Banton

McGowens

Teddy (need to stick with the kid, i thought he played more team oriented last night)

Lat

Walker

Andre

Wood

 

INCOMING:

B McGowens

Keishei

Breidenbach

 

IN DOUBT:

Ivan

Stevenson

Lakes

Arop

 

I think we need to add a true PG, another shooter, and a "big"

Edited by ConkTrifecta3
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