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4 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

It's a story as old as time.  Kid comes in as a freshman and isn't immediately an impact player, and fans want to jump all over him, calling him a bust and hoping he transfers.

 

That same kid by the time he's a senior develops into a pretty decent player, maybe even all-conference type, and some of those same fans are saying "man, we're really gonna miss that guy next year".

 

Case in point:  Ubel, Brandon.

 

Ubel was a scrawny, long 6'10" kid who got outmuscled as a frosh because he had never seriously hit a weight room.  He had tons of growth potential in his game (and no, I'm not just saying that in hindsight...I actually liked him even as a freshman).  In contrast, Cross's problems aren't easily solved by off-season conditioning.  He was the worst shooter on a horrible shooting team and not long enough to defend the post.  Unless his arms grow a few inches before he graduates, or he improves his shot by several orders of magnitude, he would never have been a consistent producer for us. Guys that walk in the door with a mature body and below average athleticism, like Cross, just don't have as much growth potential as guys who are natural raw athletes.

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Just to bring this thread completely off the rails     Goodbye Kevin Cross Though I never knew you at all And it seems to me you lived your life Like a candle in the wi

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1 hour ago, nustudent said:

I think Cross could've been someone who was a decent contributor here.   But to me, he seemed to already be at his physical peak.   Not sure how much better he would've got.   I think the team around him could have got a lot better which would've made his role interesting, but that's about it.   Cross is probably a safer bet than Andre.   But Andre's upside is way higher.

 

I'm not sure if you meant it this way, but we could have had Andre and Cross (or pick your one scholarship player from  above).  It was Trevor Lakes who signed later that one would have to choose between in this exercise. 

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37 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I mean if you can't see anything in those highlights that show how a freshman could turn into a highly productive Junior/Senior, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Because we're not coming to a conclusion. 

 

So what aspects of his game would you say are above average then?  Posting clips of the only two games he played well, where the defense is sagging off of him the majority of the time, just doesn't tell me much.  Yes, he had two games were his shot actually went in.  But taking the full sample size over the course of the season, and he was an atrocious shooter overall.  We were a bad shooting team in general, and he was the worst on the team.  I just don't see any individual offensive skill that he's above average at, and his defending is below average too.

 

But again, I respect your analysis and I'd love to have you point out specific aspects of his game that you think he's legitimately good at.  

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9 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

Ubel was a scrawny, long 6'10" kid who got outmuscled as a frosh because he had never seriously hit a weight room.  He had tons of growth potential in his game (and no, I'm not just saying that in hindsight...I actually liked him even as a freshman).  In contrast, Cross's problems aren't easily solved by off-season conditioning.  He was the worst shooter on a horrible shooting team and not long enough to defend the post.  Unless his arms grow a few inches before he graduates, or he improves his shot by several orders of magnitude, he would never have been a consistent producer for us. Guys that walk in the door with a mature body and below average athleticism, like Cross, just don't have as much growth potential as guys who are natural raw athletes.

Ubel's Freshman Season:

Screen Shot 2020-10-07 at 11.33.45 AM.png

Cross's Freshman Season:

Screen Shot 2020-10-07 at 11.34.09 AM.png

Less efficient and lower percentages for sure. But more points, rebounds, and assists. Obviously context matters. But both were bad teams (09-10 was 15-18 and 2-14 in the Big 12). 

He was one of the worst percentage shooters, but he clearly looked like he had the fundamentals and touch to improve over the years. Just my opinion of course, but that's what I saw. 

Cross had a mature body? That's just incorrect. Much was made about how much he was already making progress wise with as bad as a body as he came in with. 

I guess I'm not sure what you're arguing at this point. All I am saying is that I think he was going to turn into a very serviceable, versatile player by his junior and senior year. It's not exactly a ridiculous claim or too far out there. 

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45 minutes ago, basketballjones said:


I guess I'm not sure what you're arguing at this point. All I am saying is that I think he was going to turn into a very serviceable, versatile player by his junior and senior year. It's not exactly a ridiculous claim or too far out there. 

 

I'm not arguing so much as I'm trying to understand what specifically people that are high on Cross see in his game.  I gave reasons (both objective and subjective) of why I didn't see him as ever being a key piece of our roster, and was simply looking for the same from you.  Because again, I respect your analysis, so I wanted to know what you see in him that gives you cause for optimism.  That's it.  Not an argument, just general curiosity of what an opposing view sees while giving the reasons why I don't see that.

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I'd have to side with aphilso. Most of what he pointed out was definitely true — his production was more out of volume than effectiveness. He actively hurt Nebraska most of the time with the number of shots he took and missed, especially with the way teams were defending him. Almost every player in Division I basketball can put together a nice highlight reel if he plays enough minutes. But if you're supposed to make your impact on offense and you shoot 40.5% from 2, 27.6% from 3 and 68.2% from the free-throw line with a 1-1 assist-to-turnover ratio, I'm not quite sure what you're supposed to be good at. 

 

Cross is undersized as a big and not quick or athletic enough to play on the wing. Though he appears to have a baseline level of skills to build upon, he's got a long way to go before he's even an average shooter, let alone a plus one. I think he has a much better chance of having a successful career at a lower level than he would have in the Big Ten.

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17 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

Just to bring this thread completely off the rails

 

 

Piano Sheet Music Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me (Intermediate Level, Solo  Piano) (Elton John)

Goodbye Kevin Cross

Though I never knew you at all

And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a candle in the wind
Taking all those 3pt shots
Because they left you open

Never knowin' who to pass to

When the D sagged in

We would have liked to cheer you

But you were just a kid

Your shots all clanked off long before

Your legend ever did

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19 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I'm not arguing so much as I'm trying to understand what specifically people that are high on Cross see in his game.  I gave reasons (both objective and subjective) of why I didn't see him as ever being a key piece of our roster, and was simply looking for the same from you.  Because again, I respect your analysis, so I wanted to know what you see in him that gives you cause for optimism.  That's it.  Not an argument, just general curiosity of what an opposing view sees while giving the reasons why I don't see that.

No, definitely, I appreciate the conversation. I apologize if my tone is coming across as defensive or argumentative. 

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17 hours ago, Jacob Padilla said:

He actively hurt Nebraska most of the time with the number of shots he took and missed, especially with the way teams were defending him.

 

On an 8 or whatever and 20 or whatever team, I don't think it was just one player actively hurting the team for the shots they were taking. If you remove his bad shots I don't think we're now winning some of the games. I also don't think we are even in some of the games we were without him going off. 


Almost every player in Division I basketball can put together a nice highlight reel if he plays enough minutes. 

That's just simply not true. Especially double digit outings against the likes of Indiana or Michigan. 

 

17 hours ago, Jacob Padilla said:

 

Cross is undersized as a big and not quick or athletic enough to play on the wing. Though he appears to have a baseline level of skills to build upon, he's got a long way to go before he's even an average shooter, let alone a plus one. I think he has a much better chance of having a successful career at a lower level than he would have in the Big Ten.

Sure. And programs that aren't named UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc... rely on young players with "baseline level of skills to build upon" to stay until they are juniors and seniors to be successful. And of course he'd have a more successful career at a lower level than the big ten. Anyone would benefit from a larger role at a lower level. 

 

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1 hour ago, dustystehl said:

 

Looks like Banton, Mayen, Ouedraogo, Thor, and Webster on the Red team here.

 

Allen, McGowens, and Stevenson among White team members.

 

That's a weird picture.  Based on positioning I'd assume it's a jump ball situation, except that the White Team player next to Yvan is standing on the ground.  Also, I'd be pretty disappointed if Yvan is one of our two best jump ball options.  I'd assume Lat and Banton would both be better choices.

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2 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

 

That's a weird picture.  Based on positioning I'd assume it's a jump ball situation, except that the White Team player next to Yvan is standing on the ground.  Also, I'd be pretty disappointed if Yvan is one of our two best jump ball options.  I'd assume Lat and Banton would both be better choices.

 

...you know how Doc's teams were with conceding jump balls back in his head coaching days.

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I don't make too much of this jump ball.  There's lot of possible reasons in my mind.  

Could be that these guys have played so many practice games that they know who can outjump who.   Also the toss might have been bad.   Sometimes guys will try to steal it on the way up.   Yvan dropped lots of weight so he's pretty explosive off the floor.    Not sure how explosive Lat and Banton are in a jump ball?   They may be able to leap but how fast?   They are both long lean athletes which lends it's a bit too endurance vs explosion.   Just throwing mud at the wall as nothing else is going on. 

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1 hour ago, REDitus said:

I don't make too much of this jump ball.  There's lot of possible reasons in my mind.  

Could be that these guys have played so many practice games that they know who can outjump who.   Also the toss might have been bad.   Sometimes guys will try to steal it on the way up.   Yvan dropped lots of weight so he's pretty explosive off the floor.    Not sure how explosive Lat and Banton are in a jump ball?   They may be able to leap but how fast?   They are both long lean athletes which lends it's a bit too endurance vs explosion.   Just throwing mud at the wall as nothing else is going on. 

 

I saw the new graduate assistant reply to Pat's tweet commenting about a bad toss on the jump ball. So I think this is just an awkward photo.

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