Last Year's Rotation vs This Year's Recruits

[aphilso1]

There has been much talk about how the redshirting guys would consistently beat the starters in practice.  But in addition to those redshirting players, we now have a full cadre of new faces joining the program.  So who you got?  Taking the redshirts out of the equation and just going with the new recruits, would you take last year's rotation or the new guys?

 

Mack                                             /      Webster

Cheatham                                    /      Lat

Thor                                              /      Teddy

Burke                                            /      King

Yvan                                             /      Andre

Cross, Green, and Matej           /       Lakes/Trey (the probable sit-out transfers)

 

Edit for clarity: I'm not including Trey in this since he isn't expected to be eligible next year.  include him if you want to, but I'm purely looking at guys that I expect to be able to see the floor in '20-'21.

 

Edit for ignorance: Well crap, I was thinking you could transfer from D-II to D-I without sitting, but apparently I was having a case of the Mondays, er, Wednesdays.  So that makes this whole exercise less ideal, since it's really not an apples-to-apples comparison without Lakes.  I guess I'll just include both sit-out transfers in the "bench" comparison against Cross/Green/Matej.

Edited May 13, 2020 by aphilso1

[busticket]

Cheatham is about the only serious contender for me.  Cam with his head on straight would be two.  The rest are no brainers until hindsight after this upcoming season tells me otherwise.

[aphilso1]

Answering my own question:

 

Mack                                             =      Webster

Cheatham                                  >>      Lat

Thor                                          <<<      Teddy

Burke                                            <      King

Yvan                                             <      Andre

Cross, Green, and Matej           >       Lakes

 

Mack v Webster: Mack has more talent, but I think you want your PG to be more of a team leader even if his ceiling isn't as high.  I'll call this a push.

Cheatham v Lat: Easy call.  Going with the mature senior with boatloads of experience.

Thor v Teddy: Everyone always sells Thor short, and maybe I'm doing that again here.  But I see Teddy as a guy that can absolutely take games over and carry a team on his back, whereas Thor is a complementary piece. 

Burke v King: King was a solid guard for a good B1G team, whereas Burke was a solid guard for a historically bad team.  I actually don't see the gap in the players as being all that large (especially when you consider Burke's defense), but I think you have to give the nod to Kobe.

Yvan v Andre: Two young, raw big men with upside.  Edge to Andre for fitting Fred's system better.

Three Amigos v Lakes: I'd take Lakes over Matej, but this isn't really a fair fight.  It's 3-on-1.  The versatility of those three different skill sets coming off the bench trumps Trevor's shooting.

 

Overall: I'm taking the new guys.  And that's not even including McGowens, since he isn't expected to be eligible.  If he somehow manages to lace it up this season, then I think it's the new guys by a landslide since that would give us two players (Teddy and Trey) that can take over a game any time they step on the court.

 

So what is my point?  My point is that we potentially now have two full hockey-style line changes that would beat last year's team.  Let the sunshine pumping commence.

Edited May 13, 2020 by aphilso1

[khoock]

Cam Mack >>  Kobe Webster

Haanif Cheatham >> Lat Mayen

Thorir Thorbjarnarson << Teddy Allen

Dachon Burke < Kobe King

Yvan Ouedraogo < Eduardo Andre

Kevin Cross, Jervay Green, Matej Kavas > Trevor Lakes

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by khoock

[busticket]

I will probably be in the minority, but I would take Lakes over those three.  And I love Kevin Cross.  He was actually my favorite player last year.  The problem with those three are Cross is streaky as hell and the other two were flat out bad.  Green showed a few flashes but Kavas for some reason never looked comfortable.  

 

Having a serious three point threat from 20+ feet out would dramatically improve the floor spacing for the other 4 players.  

[royalfan]

Is lakes now expected to be playing this season?

[aphilso1]

15 minutes ago, royalfan said:

Is lakes now expected to be playing this season?

 

He's a D-II transfer...doesn't that make him immediately eligible?  Or is a waver required still?  I thought you could go D-II to D-I without sitting a year, but could be wrong.

[royalfan]

9 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

He's a D-II transfer...doesn't that make him immediately eligible?  Or is a waver required still?  I thought you could go D-II to D-I without sitting a year, but could be wrong.

 

I think it is the other way around.  

[49r]

9 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

He's a D-II transfer...doesn't that make him immediately eligible?  Or is a waver required still?  I thought you could go D-II to D-I without sitting a year, but could be wrong.

 

That only works when you transfer down a level.  Players are still required to sit out when transferring up.

 

Anyway he's on record as saying he will not seek a waiver and sit out this year.

 

 

[aphilso1]

48 minutes ago, royalfan said:

 

I think it is the other way around.  

 

47 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

That only works when you transfer down a level.  Players are still required to sit out when transferring up.

 

Anyway he's on record as saying he will not seek a waiver and sit out this year.

 

 

 

Dang.  You guys are right, my bad.  That kinda puts a damper on this comparison.  Regardless, I have edited my initial post so that it is more accurate.

[Art Vandalay]

13 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

 

Dang.  You guys are right, my bad.  That kinda puts a damper on this comparison.  Regardless, I have edited my initial post so that it is more accurate.

I think the coaches feel good about Trey getting a waiver, you could add him. No clue what the arguments will be for him or Kobe but hopefully they both get one.

[aphilso1]

15 minutes ago, Art Vandalay said:

I think the coaches feel good about Trey getting a waiver, you could add him. No clue what the arguments will be for him or Kobe but hopefully they both get one.

 

Kobe K. had the whole racism incident at Wisconsin.  He seems to have a really solid case, especially since there is recent precedent from when Justin Fields was immediately eligible transferring from UGA to tOSU.  I would be shocked if Kobe is ineligible this season. 

 

As for Trey, I don't know why the coaches think he will have his waiver granted.  I am not aware of anything that makes his case special.  I'm assuming his waiver will be denied, unless someone can provide info to convince me otherwise.

[REDitus]

I have to rearrange your lineup otherwise my brain doesn't work and I am going to move some of last year's guys a bit because their roles would of been different this year...

 

1  Webster                                                                  Mack     

2   Trey/King                                                               Burke/Green

3   Allen                                                                       Cheatham/Thor

4  Mayan                                                                      Cross/Matej

5  Andre                                                                       Yvan

 

So which team would win? Hmmm  I say team one is better scoring. Not sure how they stack up defensively.   So not sure. 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by REDitus

[Navin R. Johnson]

2 hours ago, Art Vandalay said:

I think the coaches feel good about Trey getting a waiver, you could add him. No clue what the arguments will be for him or Kobe but hopefully they both get one.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

All I can say is the new guys better be a hell of a lot better than last year's rotation or we're not going to be very good again.

[Norm Peterson]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:36 AM, khoock said:

Cam Mack >>  Kobe Webster

Haanif Cheatham >> Lat Mayen

Thorir Thorbjarnarson << Teddy Allen

Dachon Burke < Kobe King

Yvan Ouedraogo < Eduardo Andre

Kevin Cross, Jervay Green, Matej Kavas > Trevor Lakes

 

 

Cam Mack had the potential to be >> compared to Kobe Webster. I don't think he pulled it off, however. When he was on his game, he was as good as anyone. But too often, he took plays off, possessions off, games off, and took too much time on the floor patting himself on the back and not enough time buckling down on defense.

 

I'm going to say in terms of actual work on the floor, it's possible Kobe Webster will be a better floor general than Mack and maybe by a lot. He certainly produced at his last stop. And when he has to hit FT's to seal a win, I'd a whole lot rather have Kobe Webster out there than Cam Mack.

[Fullbacksympathy]

5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Cam Mack had the potential to be >> compared to Kobe Webster. I don't think he pulled it off, however. When he was on his game, he was as good as anyone. But too often, he took plays off, possessions off, games off, and took too much time on the floor patting himself on the back and not enough time buckling down on defense.

 

I'm going to say in terms of actual work on the floor, it's possible Kobe Webster will be a better floor general than Mack and maybe by a lot. He certainly produced at his last stop. And when he has to hit FT's to seal a win, I'd a whole lot rather have Kobe Webster out there than Cam Mack.

 

Cam was a terrible defender all season.  Any of our options at PG will be better all-around.  He would've wanted nothing to do with Trey (dude is a dog), and Webster would've scored all over him in practice.  It was a good decision for him to leave.  

[Cazzie22]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:26 PM, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

 

THis ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no fooling around!

[Navin R. Johnson]

1 hour ago, Cazzie22 said:

THis ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no fooling around!

 

Classic T Heads!

[49r]

9 hours ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

Classic T Heads!

 

Stop Making Sense is an all time fave concert film (should probably go in the Over and Over thread)