Talent lacking in the state of Nebraska has been greatly exaggerated

[B-town hoopsfan]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

 

Bottom line:  I think you have better odds of winding up with a successful college player if you're going after 4- and 5-star talent than hoping some local kid who's been completely overlooked by every other Power 5 program winds up eating the right combination of magic beans and becomes something.  And, having said that, I will be very quick to point out that the kids with in-state offers now appear to be the kinds of players you can win with at this level. That hasn't often been the case in the past.

But we don’t get the 4 n 5 star guys we go after? The case for going after in state guys isn’t about taking them over 4 and 5 star guys anyhow. It’s a case of an in state guy who may only be a summit league talent but is an upperclassman being way more valuable than whatever we had on the end of the bench the last half decade. 

 

By by the way I feel miles has done a fantastic job of recruiting while here, just feel he missed the boat on this subject

[nustudent]

3 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but if we had offered guys like Daum when Barry or Doc were the head coaches, you would have been one of the loudest opponents, voicing the most strenuous objections to offering all these local nobodies whom no other major conference teams offered.

 

I remember that very complaint being made -- by you -- when Doc signed Brandon Ubel.  You looked at who his next best offer was and decided he was a reach.

 

Have you changed your mind about these things?  Should we now be taking chances on these lower-rated in-state players hoping they blossom?

 

Also, you used to say that you'd rather leave a scholarship open than use it on a guy you considered a reach.  Is that still the case or has your opinion about that evolved as well?

 

I'm not saying we take or should have taken all of those guys.   My point is...we've passed on some guys who can/could help for other reaches.    It's not that we passed on these guys.   If we didn't like a guy....that's fine...but then make it worth it.   An example, If you don't think Arop is ready.   that's fine.   But don't part ways with him to sign Thor.    If you are going to reach....reach with one that makes sense.   

 

The issues with the in-state players arent as simple as did we offer or not.   Had we had a few legit bigs...the Daum conversation isn't nearly as debated.   Had we ended up with a 4-star stud averaging 15ppg after burning bridges in Omaha...that's a much different look.   Had we not had a bunch of open spots over (what looks to be) a 5th losing season in 7 tries....it's a much different conversation.   I don't necessarily fault Miles on many of the decisions that were made on instate players.   I do fault him for the compounding decisions on top of not offering.

 

I don't think you should offer a guy solely because h'e's local.  I do think being local is something that can/should tip the scale when all else is equal though.   

 

As far as the scholarship usage...I don't believe in signing a guy for the sake of signing a guy.   With that being said....I think when you are consistently down spots....that's not good either.   We've had one semester where we have been full of recruited scholarship players in MIles tenure.   Thats not including guys who have been hurt and/or not eligible.   That's not a good use of spots either.   I'll also admit that my stance on this has softened a bit too due to the day and age we are now in with the transfer market.   Odds are over 50% that any 4-year player you recruit isn't going to end up finishing here.  With that in mind....I'm much more open to take a borderline guy  now than I'd have been in the past because of the nature of the sport.

 

The first year or two...I thought MIles was very smart to hold on to spots while he was building and starting to bring in more and more talent.   7 years later, when you still have multiple spots available and are thin on depth and talent in certain areas...with little success to show for it....you (I ) look at it a bit differently.

 

As far as the recruiting profiles and offers.....I think there is a big difference between taking the occasional reach/stretch and having your entire recruiting classes year after year consist of them.  

Edited February 26, 2019 by nustudent

[B-town hoopsfan]

17 minutes ago, nustudent said:

 

 

I don't think you should offer a guy solely because h'e's local.  I do think being local is something that can/should tip the scale when all else is equal though.   

 

 

Bingo. If the talent level is close at all you have got to take the local guy on the assumption that he’s more likely to be here 4 years. Probably easier to redshirt local guys if they aren’t ready their freshman year too 

[HB]

2 hours ago, KnightHusker said:

I also recall Iba screaming Siegel on every other possession 

 

Well then Joe should have stopped it since Joe was the head coach.    You sure about that memory? 

Edited February 26, 2019 by HB

[TheGov21]

1 hour ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

Bingo. If the talent level is close at all you have got to take the local guy on the assumption that he’s more likely to be here 4 years. Probably easier to redshirt local guys if they aren’t ready their freshman year too 

 

I remember when Doc got hired he talked about wanting to play with mainly 5th year seniors and that was the way Nebraska could compete against other Big 12 schools. He did that initally but when he couldn't retain his assistants, he couldn't maintain that plan.

[KnightHusker]

16 minutes ago, HB said:

 

Well then Joe should have stopped it since Joe was the head coach.    You sure about that memory? 

Absolutely my recollection. Iba had a bigger role than just assistant coach and why would you think Cip should have stopped it? 

[B-town hoopsfan]

26 minutes ago, TheGov21 said:

 

I remember when Doc got hired he talked about wanting to play with mainly 5th year seniors and that was the way Nebraska could compete against other Big 12 schools. He did that initally but when he couldn't retain his assistants, he couldn't maintain that plan.

It’s probably not realistic to have many 5 year players these days or 2 in 1 year for that matter but gosh we should be able to have 4 year players here and not ones that transfer in after playing elsewhere for several years 

[hhcmatt]

3 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

the biggest issue is that most of the top talent is in omaha, and creighton is getting first crack at them.

 

and until we actually start winning or get a big time coach, creighton will keep getting the top omaha players.

 

 

Assuming that we keep Arop we'll have as many Omaha player as they do for the 2nd year in a row.

[AuroranHusker]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Assuming that we keep Arop we'll have as many Omaha player as they do for the 2nd year in a row.

 

I would have assumed that Akol Arop was as solid as can be. Is that a non-safe presumption?

 

 

[FredsSlacks]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Assuming that we keep Arop we'll have as many Omaha player as they do for the 2nd year in a row.

i don't believe creighton recruited either of the arops and told heiman he'd have to go to a prep school.

 

if they had, i'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gotten any of them.

[hhcmatt]

8 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

I would have assumed that Akol Arop was as solid as can be. Is that a non-safe presumption?

 

I assumed we were making the tourney this season...

[hhcmatt]

14 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

he biggest issue is that most of the top talent is in omaha, and creighton is getting first crack at them.

 

and until we actually start winning or get a big time coach, creighton will keep getting the top omaha players.

 

9 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

i don't believe creighton recruited either of the arops and told heiman he'd have to go to a prep school.

 

if they had, i'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gotten any of them.

 

The localized paradox of recruiting the state of Nebraska

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

I assumed we were making the tourney this season...

 

#MeToo

[Norm Peterson]

 

14 hours ago, nustudent said:

 

I'm not saying we take or should have taken all of those guys.   My point is...we've passed on some guys who can/could help for other reaches.    It's not that we passed on these guys.   If we didn't like a guy....that's fine...but then make it worth it.   An example, If you don't think Arop is ready.   that's fine.   But don't part ways with him to sign Thor.    If you are going to reach....reach with one that makes sense.   

 

The issues with the in-state players arent as simple as did we offer or not.   Had we had a few legit bigs...the Daum conversation isn't nearly as debated.   Had we ended up with a 4-star stud averaging 15ppg after burning bridges in Omaha...that's a much different look.   Had we not had a bunch of open spots over (what looks to be) a 5th losing season in 7 tries....it's a much different conversation.   I don't necessarily fault Miles on many of the decisions that were made on instate players.   I do fault him for the compounding decisions on top of not offering.

 

I don't think you should offer a guy solely because h'e's local.  I do think being local is something that can/should tip the scale when all else is equal though.   

 

As far as the scholarship usage...I don't believe in signing a guy for the sake of signing a guy.   With that being said....I think when you are consistently down spots....that's not good either.   We've had one semester where we have been full of recruited scholarship players in MIles tenure.   Thats not including guys who have been hurt and/or not eligible.   That's not a good use of spots either.   I'll also admit that my stance on this has softened a bit too due to the day and age we are now in with the transfer market.   Odds are over 50% that any 4-year player you recruit isn't going to end up finishing here.  With that in mind....I'm much more open to take a borderline guy  now than I'd have been in the past because of the nature of the sport.

 

The first year or two...I thought MIles was very smart to hold on to spots while he was building and starting to bring in more and more talent.   7 years later, when you still have multiple spots available and are thin on depth and talent in certain areas...with little success to show for it....you (I ) look at it a bit differently.

 

As far as the recruiting profiles and offers.....I think there is a big difference between taking the occasional reach/stretch and having your entire recruiting classes year after year consist of them.  

 

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.

[B-town hoopsfan]

10 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

I would have assumed that Akol Arop was as solid as can be. Is that a non-safe presumption?

 

 

I don’t believe he has any comparable offers to ours yet so that’s my assumption as well 

[AuroranHusker]

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I assumed we were making the tourney this season...

 

I am not sure what the correlation here is?!

 

 

[AuroranHusker]

21 minutes ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

I don’t believe he has any comparable offers to ours yet so that’s my assumption as well 

 

How are those two things "tied" together?!?

 

 

[HuskerFever]

33 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I assumed we were making the tourney this season...

 

I am not sure what the correlation here is?!

 

That you can't expect things to be solid black or white. Expectations and reality have been pretty fickle with this program, so you just never know what may happen.

[AuroranHusker]

13 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

That you can't expect things to be solid black or white. Expectations and reality have been pretty fickle with this program, so you just never know what may happen.

 

I guess I didn't see NU recruiting and this season's expectations in the same vein. Oh well.

 

 

[B-town hoopsfan]

1 hour ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

How are those two things "tied" together?!?

 

 

If you don’t have a better offer than the huskers I would think you come here regardless of who the coach is as long as the new coach wants him

[AuroranHusker]

1 minute ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

If you don’t have a better offer than the huskers I would think you come here regardless of who the coach is as long as the new coach wants him

 

So we agree, then.

 

 

[B-town hoopsfan]

1 hour ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

So we agree, then.

 

 

Ya I’m with you shoulda worded it better. Pretty hopeful we can keep green to. Not so hopeful on woods but we will see. He doesn’t have many offers either that are power 5 but I expect him to make a pretty high jump in the rankings at the end of the year 

[Jacob Padilla]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:48 PM, TimSmiles said:

i don't believe creighton recruited either of the arops and told heiman he'd have to go to a prep school.

 

if they had, i'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gotten any of them.

 

Creighton took several looks at Akol (including right before he committed to Nebraska). They just didn't see enough from a fit standpoint to pull the trigger. You are correct about Brady; they offered him for the 2019 class but not the 2018 class like Nebraska did.

 

With the way Ed Chang's recruitment fizzled out, Hunter Sallis looks to be the first true battle between the schools for quite a while. Creighton is still evaluating Chucky Hepburn but isn't ready to pull the trigger yet. Creighton isn't interested in Donovan Williams and he's the only high-major player in the 2020 class.

[Jacob Padilla]

On 2/25/2019 at 4:12 PM, hhcmatt said:

Are there Div 1 kids in Nebraska? Yup

Are there less Div 1 kids within a 4-5 hour drive from Lincoln than any other school in the conference?  Probably

Is it possible for Nebraska to be successful despite this? Sure.

Is it harder to be successful here for reasons which include all things equal better coaches will chose jobs where talent is more readily available?  Yup.

 

I get it...it's an article combating the phrase "there is nobody here" by Padilla who writes about talent in this state.  If you interpret Goodman's phrase less literally, there isn't a ton to argue there.

 

Goodman was supporting a guy he likes in Miles by basically saying Nebraska can't get anyone better because it's nearly impossible to build a good roster there. The talent in Nebraska is the part Erin highlighted for the headline, but in the story I responded to every part of what he said in that clip because it's a lazy argument. 

 

A few different people have echoed my point about there being players who have come out of the state that very likely would have contributed more than the empty scholarships or bottom-of-the-roster guys Nebraska has had over the years. That isn't so much a criticism of local recruiting under Miles as much as I meant it to be an argument that there are rosterable players that come out of this state. 

 

Goodman said there's no talent in the state, no talent in the area and that Nebraska has to go into other schools' backyards to recruit. He mentioned Detroit and California specifically, for some reason.

 

Well, there's a good bit of talent in Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas/Missouri and other similar states, or "the area." As I wrote in the story, the coaches you have on your staff determine where you can recruit as much or more than where your school is. North Carolina was a pretty fertile recruiting ground for the Huskers with Kenya Hunter. Michael Lewis has dipped the Huskers' feet into Indiana and landed a pretty darn good player in D'Andre Davis.

 

Is Nebraska harder to recruit to than a lot of places? Sure. But with where the program is at the moment, it can be done. Getting talent to Lincoln isn't where Miles has failed; it's retaining and developing that talent that has let him down.

[Jacob Padilla]

As for the Mike Daum situation, he is a wonderful story and a great get for South Dakota State. Nebraska missing on him isn't necessarily the issue because he wasn't anywhere close to what he is now (or even what he was as a redshirt freshman) in high school. The problem is that from what I've heard, Nebraska basically took one look at him, he had a bad day and that was it. They didn't even really give themselves a chance to recognize the diamond in the rough. In their defense, Kimball is much closer to Denver than it is to Lincoln, so it's not like they could just drive down the road and see him play in high school like they can with Donovan Williams. Even so, it doesn't seem like they truly did their due diligence on him.