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3 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Xavier Johnson would have most definitely been a starter over Thomas Allen. Unequivocally.

 

What are his defensive numbers?  Miles doesn't even pretend to want to play a guy who doesn't defend. 

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12 minutes ago, Cazzie22 said:

Why are Kansas State and Iowa State nearly always decent in basketball?  Are they not in a comparable situation to us?  Are Ames and Manhattan better destinations than Lincoln?  Do those schools have superior facilities?  Is Bruce Weber a great coach?  Steve Prohm has proven to be a good replacement for Hoiberg.  Why can’t we find those players in Canada?  One of those two schools may win the Big XII this year.  KSU was in the Elite 8 last year.  I would feel that I had died and gone to heaven if that happened for Nebraska.  

 

Do you think of these as traditionally football schools or basketball schools?  

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8 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Do you think of these as traditionally football schools or basketball schools?  

 

Does that automatically resign a football school to no success in basketball?  

 

There's a difference between expecting consistent elite 8s and expecting non sub -.500 records consistently.

 

What about being a 'football school' disqualifies one from being good in basketball?   There are plenty of football schools who are serviceable in basketball and vice versa. 

Edited by nustudent

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16 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Do you think of these as traditionally football schools or basketball schools?  

K-State has most certainly been a football school for the better part of the last quarter century. That's plenty long when it comes to recruiting 18-year-old kids.

 

Say what you will about Coach Snyder (I certainly have), but they had a hall-of-fame football coach on their sidelines for a long time. 

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31 minutes ago, nustudent said:

 

Does that automatically resign a football school to no success in basketball?  

 

Not at all. I'm saying that I think Kansas St and Iowa St prioritize basketball at an equal or higher level than football and that's part of why they have generally been more successful over the years. Another part is that they simply have experience in this type of success.  So yeah, we can be successful in both but doesn't it seem like we mostly know how we'll do it in football and don't really know how we'll do it in basketball?

 

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8 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Not at all. I'm saying that I think Kansas St and Iowa St prioritize basketball at an equal or higher level than football and that's part of why they have generally been more successful over the years. Another part is that they simply have experience in this type of success.  So yeah, we can be successful in both but doesn't it seem like we know mostly how we'll do it in football and don't really know how we'll do it in basketball?

  

 

Yes and no, IMO.   I think we probably know how to do it in basketball, it's just that we haven't always had the desire or ability to do 100% of what is necessary.  K-State wanted to be good in hoops again....they gave Huggins a second chance.  We would have never done something like that in the past.  We still might not.  But it's the type of thing we need to do.   Auburn did it with Pearl too.   If you want to be good, maybe it means paying a guy $3.8M a year when he'd otherwise warrant $3M.   Maybe it means giving a proven winner with past transgressions a second chance rather than a nobody a first chance.  

 

I've said a few times now over the last week or so that we need to look ourselves in the mirror and decide if we want to be good in basketball.  It's going to take us getting away from our decisions in the past to do it.  It CAN be done.   Will it?

 

 

Edited by nustudent

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39 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Do you think of these as traditionally football schools or basketball schools?  

Historically, K-State has been an understudy to KU in basketball, and they were the worse football school in the nation until Snyder got there.  Same basically holds true at ISU.  They are the red-headed step child to Iowa.  They have been hit and miss in both sports, although they have had much more success in basketball subsequent to the hiring of Johnny Orr.  The exceptions were Wayne Morgan and Greg McDermott.

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1 minute ago, hhcmatt said:

 

That is shaping up to be the 21-28 million dollar question

 

And I think it is more than that too.   $ is only part of the equation.   You have to know what you are paying for.   If you are paying for an unproven guy, that's not necessarily the way to go either.   Much better to overpay for a proven guy than pay market value for an unproven one.

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1 hour ago, hskr4life said:

I know when we fired Doc, there was a lot of angst on this board that "no one will want to come to a program where careers go to die."  I haven't seen that opinion much yet and I am curious as to why?

 

We have arguably the best recruiting coach that we have had in a long time.  Couple that with one of the better home court advantages in the conference.  Even with some of the best talent that we have had in decades, Miles most likely still won't be able to get the job done.

 

Doesn't that concern anyone now more than ever?  

 

This is one of the best (and saddest) posts I've ever read on here. It's a thought I think of frequently. We have played ball for over 100 years, yet each coach here has not gotten over the "hump". I am seriously concerned that we will never get it done. I love Miles, and he has done so many good things for us. He has also mightily struggled at times, arguably too much at times. However, it's not like he took over a Kentucky or Duke (hell, even a Kansas State or Iowa State) and ran it into the ground. He took over arguably one of, if not the least successful, Power 5 bball programs in the history of college basketball. Now, I'm not saying we lower expectations. We should be in the conversation to dance regularly, be able to win once there, and occasionally make a Sweet 16/Elite 8 run. But our program has never reached those heights. Last year's team had a chance if they would've been given a ticket to the Dance, I truly believe that, and this year's looked the part early. As mad as I get, and am right now, what hope do we have that firing Miles suddenly fixes things? Weren't Cip, Iba, Nee, Collier, Sadler, and Miles all supposed to be the Guy to get us to the next level? Well, guess what, none have. I feel like we have the closest one to get us to those places that we have ever had. I don't see Moos picking someone who is going to have us in much different of a situation 5-7 years from now. I would be OK with us going with Miles for another 3-5 years. I fear far greater what will most likely happen if we blow this thing up compared to if we patch up the ship and help the Captain get better.

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8 minutes ago, nustudent said:

 

And I think it is more than that too.   $ is only part of the equation.   You have to know what you are paying for.   If you are paying for an unproven guy, that's not necessarily the way to go either.   Much better to overpay for a proven guy than pay market value for an unproven one.

 

Wouldn't an unproven guy be a 14-21 million dollar question?

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8 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Wouldn't an unproven guy be a 14-21 million dollar question?

Possibly.   I guess the point I was trying to make was....don't go out and spend $28M for the sake of spending $28M and think that means you are committed to winning.   Spend what you need to.   Identify your guy and get him.  If school A, is willing to pay him $3M, and it's going to take you $3.5M to get him.....do it.  

 

 

Edited by nustudent

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At this point what does it matter. This program is a coaching career killer.

The most excitement this program ever generates is when we fire then subsequently hire a new basketball coach.

Some will like the new hire and some won't and in 5-7yrs we will be doing the same thing over again...again...again...again.

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9 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

At this point what does it matter. This program is a coaching career killer.

The most excitement this program ever generates is when we fire then subsequently hire a new basketball coach.

Some will like the new hire and some won't and in 5-7yrs we will be doing the same thing over again...again...again...again.

 

IYAM, it matters, because choosing the wrong coach to coach here is as much of a reason for the career killing as the program is.

There's no doubt this is a tough job.   IMO, it's not impossible for the right coach, we've just made 3 bad decisions.

Edited by nustudent

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1 hour ago, nustudent said:

Very good points.

 

And some people will say history of winning and tradition.   But the reality is....a 17-year old kid isn't going to choose a place to go play basketball for a few years based on events that occurred before he was born.   He's going to choose based on what he feels gives him the best chance of being successful and that's going to be the current coach, who may or may not have been at the school for a while.  

 

All the same challenges here, apply in Manhattan and Ames as well.

I'm not sure that's true. At least not entirely. There are a lot of factors that go into places like Iowa State and Nebraska for officials and see that the amenities the schools have to offer are fairly similar, but the banners still hang. They don't come down. They don't have expiration dates. That stuff does matter. You still hear it on the football side. That winning "tradition" still has pull. Nebrasketball needs to start hanging some banners. They've got all the bells and whistles, sure. But those banners matter as part of the equation.

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1 minute ago, nustudent said:

 

IYAM, it matters, because choosing the wrong coach to coach her is as much of a reason for the career killing as the program is.

There's no doubt this is a tough job.   IMO, it's not impossible for the right coach, we've just made 3 bad decisions.

and we will undoubtedly make another one and another one and another one and another one.

Right coach wrong coach whatever. It is going to take more luck than skill to find someone who can turn this around.

We can go after a proven loser, i.e. Alford, or a coach with questionable character and win at all costs, i.e. Dave Bliss, or another no name.

If we are going to pay somebody it should be Thad Matta. I think tOSU screwed up when the fired him. 

 

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2 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

I'm not sure that's true. At least not entirely. There are a lot of factors that go into places like Iowa State and Nebraska for officials and see that the amenities the schools have to offer are fairly similar, but the banners still hang. They don't come down. They don't have expiration dates. That stuff does matter. You still hear it on the football side. That winning "tradition" still has pull. Nebrasketball needs to start hanging some banners. They've got all the bells and whistles, sure. But those banners matter as part of the equation. 

I'll give you that in rare instances it matters.   I.e.  Blue Bloods.   Nebraska football.   Duke hoops.   Kansas hoops.  Places where there is a true aura around it.   There aren't many of those and I don't think those are the places we are truly competing with in landing kids.   

 

But I don't believe a kid is choosing Iowa State because of something Johnny Orr did in the 80s.   He's going to choose them because he believes in Prohm.  

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2 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

and we will undoubtedly make another one and another one and another one and another one.

Right coach wrong coach whatever. It is going to take more luck than skill to find someone who can turn this around.

We can go after a proven loser, i.e. Alford, or a coach with questionable character and win at all costs, i.e. Dave Bliss, or another no name.

If we are going to pay somebody it should be Thad Matta. I think tOSU screwed up when the fired him. 

  

Maybe.   But I think we might be surprised how 'lucky' we might be, when we stop making bad decisions or limiting ourselves from making a good one.

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17 minutes ago, nustudent said:

 

IYAM, it matters, because choosing the wrong coach to coach here is as much of a reason for the career killing as the program is.

There's no doubt this is a tough job.   IMO, it's not impossible for the right coach, we've just made 3 bad decisions.

Just 3? How many NCAA wins did Nee, Cip, and Iba combine for? How many conference titles. I know the landscape has changed and the number of teams who dance, etc., but we weren't exactly on fire before the 2000s.

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2 minutes ago, nustudent said:

I'll give you that in rare instances it matters.   I.e.  Blue Bloods.   Nebraska football.   Duke hoops.   Kansas hoops.  Places where there is a true aura around it.   There aren't many of those and I don't think those are the places we are truly competing with in landing kids.   

 

But I don't believe a kid is choosing Iowa State because of something Johnny Orr did in the 80s.   He's going to choose them because he believes in Prohm.  

The coach is the biggest factor in this kind of a comparison, sure. But I don't think tradition is a nothing burger, either. It's part of the equation. To what degree varies from player to player.

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Just now, jason2486 said:

Just 3? How many NCAA wins did Nee, Cip, and Iba combine for? How many conference titles. I know the landscape has changed and the number of teams who dance, etc., but we weren't exactly on fire before the 2000s.

I don't view Nee as a bad choice.

I think we would kill for his run of success right now.

We would sacrifice virgins in his honor if a coach goes to 5 NCAAs, 3 NITs (including an NIT championship) and wins a conference tournament over the next 10 years.

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1 minute ago, uneblinstu said:

The coach is the biggest factor in this kind of a comparison, sure. But I don't think tradition is a nothing burger, either. It's part of the equation. To what degree varies from player to player.

I think it means very little to players (outside of the blue blood schools).  Recent history and relevance is what matters.  I will say that I think tradition can help attract coaches (due to a history of success), which in turns attracts players though.

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LOL...I was sitting around thinking that perhaps we should go totally outside the box.  We need to change the culture.  Thus, we need a coach who understands what it takes to build the right culture.  Somebody who has played in a program with strong culture.  Somebody who has helped build a strong culture.  Someone who understands Nebraska and and what it takes to become successful.  Someone who has been around the basketball program and what it is going to take to move to the elite level.

 

I know a possible name...do you?

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1 minute ago, Huskerpapa said:

LOL...I was sitting around thinking that perhaps we should go totally outside the box.  We need to change the culture.  Thus, we need a coach who understands what it takes to build the right culture.  Somebody who has played in a program with strong culture.  Somebody who has helped build a strong culture.  Someone who understands Nebraska and and what it takes to become successful.  Someone who has been around the basketball program and what it is going to take to move to the elite level.

 

I know a possible name...do you?

Scott Frost?

 

John Cook?

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