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If Miles is Fired This Year


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Here's where it probably stands.  If NU makes the tournament and wins a game, Miles gets offered a 4 year extension.  If they makes the tournament and don't win, there's probably a 2 year extension. 

One thing I've learned from this thread: don't lose to Rutgers. 

Tim Miles will be our coach next year.

5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

We would be bonkers to fire him even if we lose in the first round. Now if things go down hill here in the next series of home games that a different story 

 

the offense looks a lot better if we just hit our open looks(we rarely do) and start hitting our free throws again. The guys staying 4 years becomes significantly easier once you start winning.

 

biggest knock on miles is he hasn’t been able to ever find a big guy. That significantly changes both the offense and our rebounding deficiency’s. 

 

Now we have already over recruited 2020 I believe so that leads me to think miles is confident he can land a ready to play grad transfer post. Can he? I have my doubts but will wait and see 

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5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

 

If we win 20 games but end up on the wrong side of the bubble, I don't think he's fired.  Programs that lack tradition need to be careful about when they let a guy go - firing Danny, even after he had a season that absolutely cratered, turned out badly.  Doc was fired after having two poor seasons out of three, and his recruiting appeared to have cratered (that was when nobody projected Shavon Shields to be as good as he was).  If Miles is fired after a moderately successful season - and 20 wins with this team would be disappointing, but only the third 20 win season in the last 20 years - it would affect the quality of coach you could get to replace him.  It would probably be better to extend him a year, but that would be done with everybody in the world knowing that he'd be gone the next time he had a bad season, which in itself also makes recruiting more difficult.

 

As for if they win game this year, I'd be good with him sticking around until, say, he had a couple losing seasons in a row.  If Miles leaves on his own, at least we can point to this job as being better than as a stepping stone to TCU, Robert Morris, Duquesne, the Merchant Marine Academy, or Southern Miss.  It seems the job has been a career ender for everyone since Jumbo Stiehm.

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5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

 

I would not want him fired... but I wouldn’t be upset if he left on his own. 

 

He’s not a good in-game coach. Those that point out he’s gotten better talent here than ever before are correct... but he’s had more resources than we’ve ever had before, so he should. I realize we’ve never won a tourney game before, and that’s a “cure all” for some... but with our budget and facilities, we should be competing for

that every year. 

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15 minutes ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

If we win 20 games but end up on the wrong side of the bubble, I don't think he's fired.  Programs that lack tradition need to be careful about when they let a guy go - firing Danny, even after he had a season that absolutely cratered, turned out badly.  Doc was fired after having two poor seasons out of three, and his recruiting appeared to have cratered (that was when nobody projected Shavon Shields to be as good as he was).  If Miles is fired after a moderately successful season - and 20 wins with this team would be disappointing, but only the third 20 win season in the last 20 years - it would affect the quality of coach you could get to replace him.  It would probably be better to extend him a year, but that would be done with everybody in the world knowing that he'd be gone the next time he had a bad season, which in itself also makes recruiting more difficult.

 

As for if they win game this year, I'd be good with him sticking around until, say, he had a couple losing seasons in a row.  If Miles leaves on his own, at least we can point to this job as being better than as a stepping stone to TCU, Robert Morris, Duquesne, the Merchant Marine Academy, or Southern Miss.  It seems the job has been a career ender for everyone since Jumbo Stiehm.

 

But in those prior situations, our resources lagged tremendously. That’s not longer the case. 

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10 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

 

Norm, this is a really good question and a lot more complex than it seems on the surface. It's easy to say that he should be rewarded with an extension if he gets to the tourney and wins, which is what will likely happen.

 

I like Tim Miles. I've had the good fortune to meet and talk with him a couple of times and I want him to succeed here. The track record over nearly 7 years, however, is not trending in the right direction. We can debate Xs & Os if we want. We can debate the physical development of the players, the apparent lack of offensive identity, the complete disregard for the concept of boxing out. But, my greater concern is the overall psychology of the players within this program.

 

An article in the OWH tonight recapping his comments on his radio show is the epitome of concerning. He called his team "soft" and "unprepared". Tell me how that can possibly happen when you are 3-4 in league play and start 3 seniors and a junior, all of whom have been in the program at least 3 years? 

 

We know basketball can be a rollercoaster ride. But the ups and downs should be much less severe when you are putting that much experience on the court. The ups are great (Creighton & Indiana) but the downs are big drops (Minnesota, Maryland, Rutgers).

 

In my opinion, the blown leads, the hero ball, the lack of consistent focus & effort are symptoms of ineffective leadership and a faulty culture within the program. The lack of a bench shines a brighter spotlight on these things because there are simply no consequences for those unwilling to do what is required to be successful. 

 

I don't have the answer - if Tim gets to the tourney and wins, he will remain at Nebraska. And I do hope that is the case. But I'm more than a little concerned that the foundational issues of leadership & culture will remain.

 

Edited by demone
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11 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

 

Why wouldn't he change with greater success? Do coaches not evolve? 

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Nebraska needs to look at themselves, and what they want to be.

 

Football: we need to be playing for west crowns every year.

 

Basketball : NCAA/NIT every year.  Maybe a hiccup, every once in awhile after a rebuild.  I think Mile's can do that for us.  It was supremely shitty what the NIT.  I truly believe we get a rightful 2 seed, we win it.

 

Baseball :  no excuse for not winning a big 10 crown every year.

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I am not necessarily in the Camp of win a game I want a long extension.  32 coaches do it every year.  Just because we have never done it before, doesn’t make it some incredible accomplishment.  If he isn’t a guy that can consistently get us there, consistently show an ability to elevate us in close ones, consistently show an ability to develop players(which is critical here), etc. we ought to move on if there is a hire we are confident could to better and confident we can get.  

 

This is is a very tricky situation.  While I wish I was in the position to make the decision, I don’t envy those that are.  

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20 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There are still a lot of games to be played and lots can happen.  Make the dance and, especially, win a game when there, and Miles does not get fired; fail to make the dance, and he almost certainly will.  I don't know which scenario will occur and I think either is a possibility at this point.

 

But let me ask this: Let's say the first scenario occurs and we reach the dance and win a game. Miles is still who he is. And, for all you people who have been critical of his "middle school" offense and inability to recruit a big man and keep guys for 4 years etc. etc., he's still going to be that guy. That ain't gonna change.

 

So, I'd like to see a show of hands: Even if this team reaches the dance and wins a game once they get there, do you still want to see Miles let go?

 

If not, why would you want to keep a guy who continues to run a "middle school" offense, etc?

 

For me I would hope that a win and another NCAA appearance will just continue to propel our program in recruiting.  I don't care if our offense looks like Kansas St as long as we win.  So for me, if Miles wins a game this year he deserves an extension.  I don't believe it means he deserves a lifetime contract but with a NCAA win this year he has earned some breathing room and to not be worried every year about being let go.   

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On 1/21/2019 at 11:52 PM, Keenan9595 said:

We’ll see, but I’m not going to be convinced until it happens.  Pigs can fly and dreamers can dream I suppose.

Who is to say Moos will even be allowed to make that decision.  It might be taken out of his hands at that time IF he is still here.

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10 hours ago, swmckewon said:

 

Why wouldn't he change with greater success? Do coaches not evolve? 

 

Sure, coaches evolve. Not sure why a coach would change with greater success. Success is usually an indication that what you're doing is working.  Failure is what usually provokes someone to make changes.

 

But my issue is that we have this same discussion every single year.  And every year, the people who want to see Miles gone make the same complaints.

 

We lose 4 senior contributors off this team, including a couple of the best players we've ever had.  We might have some decent recruits coming in but you have to figure we're going to backslide a bit next year.

 

Who knows? We might not make the dance this year, in which case this discussion is academic. On the other hand, we might not only make the dance but also win a game there for the first time in program history.  But, if we do have NCAA tourney success this year, are we just putting off the annual "fire Miles" discussion for a year?

 

I honestly want to know: If he's the same Tim Miles you wanted fired a year or two years ago, why would anything change just because he wins a game in the dance?

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10 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Sure, coaches evolve. Not sure why a coach would change with greater success. Success is usually an indication that what you're doing is working.  Failure is what usually provokes someone to make changes.

 

But my issue is that we have this same discussion every single year.  And every year, the people who want to see Miles gone make the same complaints.

 

We lose 4 senior contributors off this team, including a couple of the best players we've ever had.  We might have some decent recruits coming in but you have to figure we're going to backslide a bit next year.

 

Who knows? We might not make the dance this year, in which case this discussion is academic. On the other hand, we might not only make the dance but also win a game there for the first time in program history.  But, if we do have NCAA tourney success this year, are we just putting off the annual "fire Miles" discussion for a year?

 

I honestly want to know: If he's the same Tim Miles you wanted fired a year or two years ago, why would anything change just because he wins a game in the dance?

The answer is probably that a lot of people don't want to look bad by firing a coach who just won. ESPN's clowns would jump on us, and a lot of people can't deal with it. 

 

I have higher expectations than what I think Miles can deliver. As to the question "do coaches not evolve?",  I think he has a pretty long track record of underperformance, under .500 in 12 years of D-1 coaching. I guess maybe a slug can evolve into a cheetah, but I'm not sure I can wait long enough to find out. 

 

And while the logic may be poor, I'd be very happy to keep him if we won an NCAA game because at least we would no longer have to live with that. That means enough to me to be able to wait a couple more seasons to see if the slug evolves.

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9 minutes ago, avfan2121 said:

I often see comments like this. I think it's important to remember that every school in the conference (and country) has bigger budgets and better facilities than ever before.

 

But our delta far exceeds the average. Where was Doc paid in relation to his peers compared to Tim? How does PBA and Hendricks compare in relation to others within the conference compared with the Bob and Mabel Lee?

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5 minutes ago, nebrasketball10 said:

 

But our delta far exceeds the average. Where was Doc paid in relation to his peers compared to Tim? How does PBA and Hendricks compare in relation to others within the conference compared with the Bob and Mabel Lee?

I think fans tend to only see their own team's improvements and assume we have top of the line facilities. I don't know where they would honestly rank. But let's just say we are on par with every team in the B1G. We should also be relatively even when it comes to budgets due to revenue sharing. Now factor everything else: history, location, fan support, etc...Why should Nebrasketball be any higher than 10 or 11 in the Big Ten pecking order? Our average finish under Miles is a shade better than 9th. So while we may want the program to be better, I don't know what really tells us it should be better.

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1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Sure, coaches evolve. Not sure why a coach would change with greater success. Success is usually an indication that what you're doing is working.  Failure is what usually provokes someone to make changes.

 

But my issue is that we have this same discussion every single year.  And every year, the people who want to see Miles gone make the same complaints.

 

We lose 4 senior contributors off this team, including a couple of the best players we've ever had.  We might have some decent recruits coming in but you have to figure we're going to backslide a bit next year.

 

Who knows? We might not make the dance this year, in which case this discussion is academic. On the other hand, we might not only make the dance but also win a game there for the first time in program history.  But, if we do have NCAA tourney success this year, are we just putting off the annual "fire Miles" discussion for a year?

 

I honestly want to know: If he's the same Tim Miles you wanted fired a year or two years ago, why would anything change just because he wins a game in the dance?

For me, it doesn’t change it.  This is tough as deep down I know he is very unlikely to take us to great heights(oddly this unique blend could go on a run with variance running in our favor), especially on a consistent basis.  

 

I also want us to win so damn bad I root like hell for the guy.  If we win a game, an extension will come.  I don’t think that is likely to be a move that puts us in an optimal position.  There is a decent chance a coaching move makes us worse as well, but I think it is a risk I am willing to take.  

 

If if there was a way to go on a tourney run and Miles wanting to take another job, that is perfect end game as I see it.  

Edited by royalfan
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5 minutes ago, avfan2121 said:

I think fans tend to only see their own team's improvements and assume we have top of the line facilities. I don't know where they would honestly rank. But let's just say we are on par with every team in the B1G. We should also be relatively even when it comes to budgets due to revenue sharing. Now factor everything else: history, location, fan support, etc...Why should Nebrasketball be any higher than 10 or 11 in the Big Ten pecking order? Our average finish under Miles is a shade better than 9th. So while we may want the program to be better, I don't know what really tells us it should be better.

I think you are underestimating our basketball facilities.  It is cyclical though so we will migrate down over time.  

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9 minutes ago, nebrasketball10 said:

 

But our delta far exceeds the average. Where was Doc paid in relation to his peers compared to Tim? How does PBA and Hendricks compare in relation to others within the conference compared with the Bob and Mabel Lee?

 

Interesting you should bring up Doc.  Funny thing about that is that a lot of the complaints I've heard levelled against Miles were also levelled against Doc and Barry and Danny and Moe and ...

 

And a lot of it by, I think, the same people.

 

Nobody ever develops. Except when they do. But in those cases, you can't give credit to the coach because those players would have developed anyway. But other than those players who do develop, nobody ever develops, and that's the coach's fault.

 

Our offense is sluggish. We run the weave. Can we please not run the weave anymore? That's so middle school.  We need to be up-tempo. No one wants to play slow-it-down ball.  You want recruits? We need to increase the tempo. Oh, but now we're giving up more offensive rebounds. Can't we slow it down? I'd rather win 45-40 than lose 90-88. And maybe run the weave once in awhile (kidding, no one ever said that.)

 

People who think Tim Miles runs a middle school offense aren't going to suddenly think he's running a sophisticated NBA-style offense next year if he happens to be retained.

 

I just don't want to hear the same shit a year from now, that's all.

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