Creighton - Nebraska

[Bugeaters1]

I agree this type of substitution is very puzzling. I am also puzzled by the frequency of the substitutions. Halfway through the first quarter the entire team has already been on the court. How do players get their rhythm when they are going in and out all of the time? Just asking.


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Maybe u guys need to do some research on how she has played her bench while at So. Dakota.

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[HB]

46 minutes ago, Huskerwatcher said:

 

I agree this type of substitution is very puzzling. I am also puzzled by the frequency of the substitutions. Halfway through the first quarter the entire team has already been on the court. How do players get their rhythm when they are going in and out all of the time? Just asking.


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Gotta love message boards.   The last coach got killed on here for not substituting enough and playing people too many minutes (although when she did substitute, she caught hell for being negative and taking players out for making mistakes).    Now this coach catches it for too many substitutions and wave substitutions.    Kinda funny, actually.  

[Huskerwatcher]

 
Gotta love message boards.   The last coach got killed on here for not substituting enough and playing people too many minutes (although when she did substitute, she caught hell for being negative and taking players out for making mistakes).    Now this coach catches it for too many substitutions and wave substitutions.    Kinda funny, actually.  

Not sure what the earlier grip was on the board regarding the previous coach. I was just stating that in watching the rotation of the bench. I can’t really tell what group of players truly play best together on the floor, or unless you come off the bench automatically on fire how would players get into a flow. Also, I’m not saying to not play everyone, but maybe the rotation could not be so frenzied. I’ve noticed as said earlier that a player may look to be getting in a groove and then they are pulled out. Almost like subs are going in because it’s time to send in someone else, and not because the situation calls for it.


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[Bugeaters1]

 
Gotta love message boards.   The last coach got killed on here for not substituting enough and playing people too many minutes (although when she did substitute, she caught hell for being negative and taking players out for making mistakes).    Now this coach catches it for too many substitutions and wave substitutions.    Kinda funny, actually.  

I know the die hards know that when Yori's team had vonnie turner, D kelly, etc. That Yori would sub 5 at time and wore a lot of teams down by doing so.

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[Red Don]

Some quotes from the Arky game may also be germane here:

 

On 11/16/2017 at 8:44 PM, Cazzie22 said:

Like the fact that the team pulled out a win with Whitish not being a factor.  The 1-3-1 zone limited Arkansas’ ability to penetrate and Coach Miles could learn some offense from Coach Williams.  Loved the grittiness, fight and camaraderie the team showed.   

 

I was very wrong, Taylor Kissinger is a factor and seems to be a heady player.  Getting Nicea and Morton back has to help the team get better.  Rotating the three posts will help keep Cain fresh in the late stages.  

 

Wiliams can coach, do we have the athletes to compete at the highest level?  

 

On 11/17/2017 at 6:37 AM, huskerchode said:

That seemed like night and day compared to the games I saw last year.  Team chemistry is tremendously improved and the girls look like they are enjoying themselves and the game and have some confidence.  They pick each other up.  That's not to say we won't see some growing pains, but I have no doubt the team will work through them and learn and come out even stronger.  Jasmine was a beast last night, that's the player I've been wanting to see.  I was very impressed with our freshman.  It helps so much to have a solid bench.  Some of the girls looked a bit tired at the end - but if we didn't have that bench, we may have lost the game due to fatigue.  They were all working their butts off which is something you can do every single minute on the court when you know you will be subbed and get some rest (rather than faced with playing 30+ minutes).  So fun to watch.  Cain has amazingly long arms - love the idea of her and Taylor for 4 years!

 

After re-watching the game it seems like a lot of our shots were just not falling for us, despite good looks. Add those treys that rattled out, missed bunnies and FTs and we are well ahead of the game and the outcome might have been much different.   In the second half,  some players looked just fatigued,  from the expression on their faces.

 

[huskerfrank]

I think this playing time/substitution thing is really interesting.  If Coach Williams can win playing 10 or 11players, that is a great thing, will keep everyone involved and happy, and promote a great team environment.  She did it at SD, and she is certainly not the only coach who works this way. The question is does it makes it harder to be successful?  If my life was on the line for one game, or even one season, with any team (not necessarily ours) I would commit to my best 7, having one front court sub and one back court sub.  Who are the last 4 players on the Cavs or Warriors benches?  Anybody know without going to the internet, of course not because they never play. Another example is of course UCONN, where Geno could be up 50 and still be playing his starters...not defending it, just stating it. Bottom line is players doing well should stay in and players doing poorly should (eventually) come out...it should not be predetermined.

[Actualfacts1]

Having played college and semi-pro ball, I totally agree Huskerfrank. But also it's good to keep im mind that these early non-conference games are where you can kind of tinker with your lineups, subs, etc. Not that coach Amy isn't trying to win; but when you head into the conference schedule coaches usually tend to have their primary lineup rotations figured. It usually stays around 8-9 players maybe 10 weigh certain matchups, score, etc. But I do agree with playing too many players makes it harder to get a rhythm.

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[huskerfrank]

Kim Mulkey at #3 Baylor just played basically 7 women tonight in a 30 point win vs Central Arkansas.  I'll bet Dawn Staley at South Carolina works the same way.  These coaches were stars in college and bench players are a distant 2nd thought to them.  Coach Williams was not a star, or a starter here at UNL.  I'll bet her playing experience makes her more determined to involve everyone, as It does not seem she was involved so much (statistically, I wasn't there) when she played.  It means she has a heart and wants everyone to have a great experience, which is not a bad thing.  Still have to reward the players doing well, though.

[whoopdeedoo]

10 hours ago, huskerfrank said:

Kim Mulkey at #3 Baylor just played basically 7 women tonight in a 30 point win vs Central Arkansas.  I'll bet Dawn Staley at South Carolina works the same way.  These coaches were stars in college and bench players are a distant 2nd thought to them.  Coach Williams was not a star, or a starter here at UNL.  I'll bet her playing experience makes her more determined to involve everyone, as It does not seem she was involved so much (statistically, I wasn't there) when she played.  It means she has a heart and wants everyone to have a great experience, which is not a bad thing.  Still have to reward the players doing well, though.

imo, one might have to enter in the talent factor when you are analyzing those schools. if coach had that type of talent, she may only be playing around 7 deep, too. 

[hoop_head]

I like the substitution. The funnest teams, and the best teams, I ever played on were like that. Hope it continues. 

 

Like someone else said, there will be growing pains. The Creighton loss doesn't detract one iota from my excitement about this team. 

[HUD]

I know it's been said before but we are really young.  75% of team minutes played against Creighton came from freshmen and sophomores.  Many of these players hadn't played together much as well.  Practice is one thing but games under fire is a whole lot different.  Janay our 3 year starter hasn't played in a game yet.  It will be interesting to see what she can bring to the table when she does.

[Norm Peterson]

15 hours ago, huskerfrank said:

I think this playing time/substitution thing is really interesting.  If Coach Williams can win playing 10 or 11players, that is a great thing, will keep everyone involved and happy, and promote a great team environment.  She did it at SD, and she is certainly not the only coach who works this way. The question is does it makes it harder to be successful?  If my life was on the line for one game, or even one season, with any team (not necessarily ours) I would commit to my best 7, having one front court sub and one back court sub.  Who are the last 4 players on the Cavs or Warriors benches?  Anybody know without going to the internet, of course not because they never play. Another example is of course UCONN, where Geno could be up 50 and still be playing his starters...not defending it, just stating it. Bottom line is players doing well should stay in and players doing poorly should (eventually) come out...it should not be predetermined.

 

6,000 minutes in a season is a lot to distribute among 7 women.

 

You'd be talking an average of 29 minutes per player there.  You'd probably also be talking walking boots and crutches.  That's a lot of minutes across a 30 game season.

 

If your bench is deep and your freshmen are good, get the freshmen in there to develop for down the road and give your starters a blow so that they're strong for the final 5 minutes of the game.

 

If your bench isn't deep, well ... make sure your athletic trainer likes you.

[redsteve]

It's Coach Amy's game style. The plan I assume is to wear the other team out, and save your own players. We'll see how it works...but just only a few games...or one year isn't enough time to evaluate. If the bench is good enough then it may work.

If we have 5, 6, or 7 lets say, and their obviously far better than the rest, and they don't get the minutes, then I'll begin to wonder a bit too.   For that matter, not so sure we now have deep enough bench to play 12 effectively.  I't just where we are now. Next year we'll be deeper. And the next year may be deeper yet. Depends how we develop. 

 

I watch closer when it's crunch time, just how the substitutions go.  I do think you'll develop your players faster playing everyone a lot. 

 

Granted it not the usual ...most teams play the most skilled ....the most.  So, we'll see how we progress, not just this year, but later.

[Bugeaters1]

16 minutes ago, redsteve said:

It's Coach Amy's game style. The plan I assume is to wear the other team out, and save your own players. We'll see how it works...but just only a few games...or one year isn't enough time to evaluate. If the bench is good enough then it may work.

If we have 5, 6, or 7 lets say, and their obviously far better than the rest, and they don't get the minutes, then I'll begin to wonder a bit too.   For that matter, not so sure we now have deep enough bench to play 12 effectively.  I't just where we are now. Next year we'll be deeper. And the next year may be deeper yet. Depends how we develop. 

 

I watch closer when it's crunch time, just how the substitutions go.  I do think you'll develop your players faster playing everyone a lot. 

 

Granted it not the usual ...most teams play the most skilled ....the most.  So, we'll see how we progress, not just this year, but later.

Finally someone that has Coach Williams figured out. I couldn't agree more Steve.

[Cazzie22]

9 hours ago, HUD said:

I know it's been said before but we are really young.  75% of team minutes played against Creighton came from freshmen and sophomores.  Many of these players hadn't played together much as well.  Practice is one thing but games under fire is a whole lot different.  Janay our 3 year starter hasn't played in a game yet.  It will be interesting to see what she can bring to the table when she does.

Am I wrong, but Creighton played two freshmen quite a bit in the game and the girl that hurt us most was a Sophomore.   We cannot always use youth as an excuse.  The lack of practice time for the team together I can accept as a factor.  

[HUD]

Creighton did in fact play some under classmen which took a little less then 50% of the minutes.  All I'm saying is that youth and transfers in can hurt you at times early in the season but as it progresses should be less of an issue.  How fast players develop then becomes the key.

[Bugeaters1]

From what the stats look like, it seems that a rotation is being set.

 

## SUMMARY              GP-GS   Min   FG%  3PT%   FT%  R/G  A/G STL BLK PTS/G
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 33 Taylor Kissinger....  4-4   27.0  .452  .429  .600  4.3  2.5   4   3  13.3
 31 Kate Cain...........  4-3   21.8  .541  .000  .571  6.3  1.5   1  10  11.0
 15 Bria Stallworth.....  4-0   23.0  .314  .250  .889  2.8  2.5   1   0   8.5
 03 Hannah Whitish......  4-4   26.5  .343  .313  .429  5.0  4.8   2   0   8.0
 34 Jasmine Cincore.....  4-4   29.0  .333  .333  .727  2.5  2.0  11   2   7.3
 24 Maddie Simon........  3-3   24.7  .429  .143  .500  9.3  2.0   2   1   6.7
 14 Grace Mitchell......  4-1   16.0  .450  .000  .750  3.5  0.0   2   0   5.3
 05 Nicea Eliely........  1-0   15.0  .143  .000 1.000  5.0  0.0   1   3   4.0
 12 Emily Wood..........  4-0   16.0  .625  .714  .000  2.3  1.3   4   0   3.8
 43 Rachel Blackburn....  4-0    9.8  .500  .000  .333  3.3  0.3   0   0   3.0
 50 Darrien Washington..  4-1    8.8  .333  .000  .167  3.0  0.5   1   1   1.8
 TM TEAM................  4-0    0.0  .000  .000  .000  3.8  0.0   0   0   0.0
    Total...............  4           .410  .346  .594 44.8 16.8  29  20  67.8
    Opponents...........  4           .344  .320  .714 40.5 11.5  26  19  61.5

[huskerfrank]

UCONN beat UCLA by 20 last night.  Geno played 6 in their 4th game of the year, and 3 played 40 minutes. Obviously not too worried about players getting hurt.  Win at any/all cost......does not care it if players are unhappy or if they transfer, quit, or whatever... and this is not because the bench is no good.  It is his approach to winning.  Select your best and go with them. Hoping we can find a happy medium.  Lets go get them today.

 

 

 

 

[Bugeaters1]

4 minutes ago, huskerfrank said:

UCONN beat UCLA by 20 last night.  Geno played 6 in their 4th game of the year, and 3 played 40 minutes. Obviously not too worried about players getting hurt.  Win at any/all cost......does not care it if players are unhappy or if they transfer, quit, or whatever... and this is not because the bench is no good.  It is his approach to winning.  Select your best and go with them. Hoping we can find a happy medium.  Lets go get them today.

 

 

 

 

WHO CARES MOVE ON, YOU ARE BEATING A DEAD HORSE,. Unless you become the coach, there is nothing that you or I can do about it.

[Bugeaters1]

[Bugeaters1]

Okay lets go over this one more time. Coach Williams does not play a 6 or 7 person rotation. I'm going to post the pdf's of the last three seasons that she was at SDU.

 

2015-16 USD Avg. Mins. played 

 

Seakamp  30.0

Hemiller    26.2

Stewart     24.6

Duffy          23.5

McCloud   16.7

Liveringhouse  12.2

Tramboli   18.4

Fogg          10.0

Bradley      11.3

Arens.B     15.4

Arens. A     8.5

Homoly      5.9

Hoff            8.2

Here you can see Williams played 10 of the 13 Ten or more minutes

 

 

2014-15 USD Avg. Mins. played

 

 

Seakamp            28.8

Contrearas         27.6

McMloud            22.4

Hemiller              24.6

Stewart               19.3

Loeffler               25.8

Arens                  18.4

Liveringhouse    13.7

Hoff                     15.4

Jackson              09.2

Moore                  03.5 

So here you can see that Williams played 9 of the 11 Ten minutes or more 

This is a small sample of Williams time allotment for her players while at SDU. And it looks like it will be the same at Dear ole Nebraska U.

in 2016-17 Williams played 10 of the 11 ten minutes or and only Wood played less and she came in at 9.6 mins per game.

 

 

 

 

 

                      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Bugeaters1

[whoopdeedoo]

don't mean to be picky, but, coach williams was at USD, not SDSU. 

[Bugeaters1]

2 hours ago, whoopdeedoo said:

don't mean to be picky, but, coach williams was at USD, not SDSU. 

Yeah I knew that. don't know why an S got in there.

 

[Canadian4NU]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:25 PM, huskerfrank said:

I think this playing time/substitution thing is really interesting.  If Coach Williams can win playing 10 or 11players, that is a great thing, will keep everyone involved and happy, and promote a great team environment.  She did it at SD, and she is certainly not the only coach who works this way. The question is does it makes it harder to be successful?  If my life was on the line for one game, or even one season, with any team (not necessarily ours) I would commit to my best 7, having one front court sub and one back court sub.  Who are the last 4 players on the Cavs or Warriors benches?  Anybody know without going to the internet, of course not because they never play. Another example is of course UCONN, where Geno could be up 50 and still be playing his starters...not defending it, just stating it. Bottom line is players doing well should stay in and players doing poorly should (eventually) come out...it should not be predetermined.

Found it kind of interesting that you used the word predetermined.  If you go watch the first quarter from all the games last year, you will notice that players subbed in the game in almost the same order every game.  A friend of mine used the word “scripted” when describing the puzzling subbing patterns. Last year it didn’t matter how players were performing, they still subbed in the same order.