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Next Years Starting 5


Handy Johnson

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So, is Copeland a 3 or a 4?

 

Miles always says "you are what you guard."  Copeland's 6'9" but he's only 220#.  Can he guard guys like Caleb Swanigan or Nick Ward?  Swanigan might be gone to the NBA next year, but guys of that dimension that we often see playing PF in the Big Ten -- 6'8" and 240# or so -- is he going to be able to guard guys like that?  Is that what his skillset translates to?  Just asking because I don't know.

 

Just thinking out loud here, but let's say Copeland is a 4.  I think really strong arguments could be made for Michael Jacobson and a healthy Ed Morrow to continue to start.  On the other hand, I think there's a lot of reason to think the starters at the 4 and 5 could be Isaac and Jordy.

 

I think the question as to who your 4 is may depend on the answer to the question whether Isaac at the 3 and, say, Ed at the 4, is a better option than, say, Jack at the 3 and either Isaac or Ed at the 4. 

 

So, how good is Copeland and can he play the 3 better than our other options at the 3? 

 

I think that's the question because, right now, I see Ed and Mike (and Jordy) as stronger options at the 4/5 than the guys we have at the 3.  If Copeland can be a better 3 than Isaiah, Jack, Jeriah, Evan, etc., then he probably plays the 3.  If not, then he probably comes off the bench behind the 4s and 5s we already have.

 

In other words, I think you're more likely to have a front line of Isaac, Ed and Jordy, or Isaac, Mike and Jordy than you are to see Jack, Isaac and Jordy.

 

Does that make any sense? 

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22 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

So, is Copeland a 3 or a 4?

 

Miles always says "you are what you guard."  Copeland's 6'9" but he's only 220#.  Can he guard guys like Caleb Swanigan or Nick Ward?  Swanigan might be gone to the NBA next year, but guys of that dimension that we often see playing PF in the Big Ten -- 6'8" and 240# or so -- is he going to be able to guard guys like that?  Is that what his skillset translates to?  Just asking because I don't know.

 

Just thinking out loud here, but let's say Copeland is a 4.  I think really strong arguments could be made for Michael Jacobson and a healthy Ed Morrow to continue to start.  On the other hand, I think there's a lot of reason to think the starters at the 4 and 5 could be Isaac and Jordy.

 

I think the question as to who your 4 is may depend on the answer to the question whether Isaac at the 3 and, say, Ed at the 4, is a better option than, say, Jack at the 3 and either Isaac or Ed at the 4. 

 

So, how good is Copeland and can he play the 3 better than our other options at the 3? 

 

I think that's the question because, right now, I see Ed and Mike (and Jordy) as stronger options at the 4/5 than the guys we have at the 3.  If Copeland can be a better 3 than Isaiah, Jack, Jeriah, Evan, etc., then he probably plays the 3.  If not, then he probably comes off the bench behind the 4s and 5s we already have.

 

In other words, I think you're more likely to have a front line of Isaac, Ed and Jordy, or Isaac, Mike and Jordy than you are to see Jack, Isaac and Jordy.

 

Does that make any sense? 

 

I would agree that Copeland will probably be more of a 3 but with the ability to play the 4. We are kind of log-jammed with people to play the 3 but that's not a bad thing. When he is in at the 4, he can definitely stretch the defense to have to come all the way out to the three point line. So if he does have a true "big" guarding him, I think that will be a nice advantage to take him off the dribble or just catch and shoot. We will have a lot of versatility next near with how we want to insert guys into the lineup. Will be interesting to see how it all comes together in the offseason and to see where guys stack up against each other. 

 

Also, I think Nana will be able to contribute right away. He is a raw talent that is developing more and more every time he steps on the floor. And James Palmer, dude can really shoot it and explodes to the rim as well. We have a lot of similar style players in Nana, Palmer, Copeland that are going to be big time contributors next season. Lets get to the tourney and make some noise!!!

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Miles will have to make some decisions about who brings the most to the floor, but it would not shock me to see a starting lineup like I said earlier on pg 2 of

 

PG 6-0 Watson

SG 6-6 Palmer or Akenten (Akenten being a smooth athlete with "effortless range" per Miles should see minutes next year on the order of any of our other freshmen this year)

SF 6-9 Copeland

PF 6-7 Morrow

C 6-11 Tshimanga

 

That's legit size and a lot like what G'town had while Copeland was there.

 

And that would be a starting lineup with 4 juniors and a sophomore.

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1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

Miles will have to make some decisions about who brings the most to the floor, but it would not shock me to see a starting lineup like I said earlier on pg 2 of

 

PG 6-0 Watson

SG 6-6 Palmer or Akenten (Akenten being a smooth athlete with "effortless range" per Miles should see minutes next year on the order of any of our other freshmen this year)

SF 6-9 Copeland

PF 6-7 Morrow

C 6-11 Tshimanga

 

That's legit size and a lot like what G'town had while Copeland was there.

 

And that would be a starting lineup with 4 juniors and a sophomore.

 

With the way Jordy is improving I changed my mind and probably see him starting. Then I agree with your lineup with Palmer starting. Love the idea of bringing Jake's energy off the bench at either spot. We would be hard to handle on the boards.Think Evan has to be a full time back up PG next year then as well. Probably leaves Gill and either Jack/Horne outside the rotation (if Copeland is as advertised) unfortunately. Maybe Horne if he improves the feet or Roby could get time at the 2 I suppose.

 

Good options to have regardless of how it shakes out. At least we can cover an injury or 3 except for GW.

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So I guess everyone must think we're going to play zone next year? Because Copeland can't guard at 3 any more than McVeigh, Roby or Horne. And Akenten is going to be just a minor contributor, imo. It's up to Glynn, Gill, Taylor and Palmer at the guard spots. Still too many bodies at the 4. I'm very optimistic about next season, but I just don't see us throwing all of these big guys out on the perimeter.

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I've never seen Copeland play defense,  which is why I asked whether he was a three or a four. Apparently he played quite a bit at the three position while at Georgetown. He is reputed to have NBA level athleticism. That would be consistent with his five-star ranking coming out of  high school. If that is true, I'm not sure why he would not be able to play the three. Bottom line, I am sure we will put our best five players on the floor for the opening tip.   If Copeland is in that group along with Jordy and Ed, then he will start  and so will they.

Edited by Norm Peterson
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I think by the end of next season we're going to see a starting five/bench of:

 

Watson/Taylor/Costello (I'm not playin!)

Akenten/Taylor/Gill

Copeland/McVeigh/Palmer

Morrow/Horne/Fuller

Jordy/Jacobson

 

***Roaming sub:  Roby (for use at 1-5 and providing matchup nightmares)***

 

I think (pray) we will see Jacobson move to the 5 with Jordy because 1.) He'll likely gain another 15lbs this summer,  2.) Morrow and Jordy have to be the starting frontcourt or I've lost all faith in this coaching staff's ability to see correctly, and 3.) Jacobson is a great teammate and wouldn't get butthurt by a bench spark role.  

 

Absolutely ridiculous talent and athleticism in that starting 5.  

 

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6 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

I've never seen Copeland play defense,  which is why I asked whether he was a three or a four. Apparently he played quite a bit at the three position while at Georgetown. He is reputed to have NBA level athleticism. That would be consistent with his five-star ranking coming out of  high school. If that is true, I'm not sure why he would not be able to play the three. Bottom line, I am sure we will put our best five players on the floor for the opening tip.   If Copeland is in that group along with Jordy and Ed, then he will start  and so will they.

 

 

Judge for yourself, he guarded both 3s and 4s here.

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 Ok, I'll bite on the original subject.

 

Starters:

Jordy Tshimanga, 6-11, 275, So.

Michael Jacobson, 6-9, 245, Jr.

Jeriah Horne, 6-7, 225, So.

Nana Akenten, 6-6, 205, Fr.

Evan Taylor, 6-5, 210, Sr.

 

Bench:

Jack McVeigh, 6-8, 215, Jr.

Anton Gill, 6-3, 200, Sr.

Nick Fuller, 6-7, 215, Sr.

Tanner Borchardt, 6-8, 275, So.

Justin Costello, 6-2, 175, Fr.

 

This is assuming that the five most likely starters are out, which would be

Ed Morrow, 6-7, 235, Jr.

Isaac Copeland, 6-9, 225, Jr.

Isaiah Roby, 6-9, 220, So.

James Palmer, 6-6, 215, Jr.

Glynn Watson, 6-0, 175, Jr.

 

This is assuming that Roby is healthy and improves quite a bit - I definitely wouldn't consider him or Palmer as a lock to start. I don't know that Ed and Jordy will play a lot at the same time, Ed's minutes might be limited due to his foot issues and I think you want at least one of them on the floor as much as possible. This lineup would be pretty athletic, have decent size except at the one and the five, and should rebound and defend and handle the ball well enough - but 3 point shooting might be a question. There would be plenty of size to bring off the bench in Jordy and Jacobson, a good defender at the 1, 2, or 3 in Taylor, and a lot of scoring options in Anton, Jack, Jeriah, and Nana that any scoring droughts should be inexcusable.

 

If this is the roster there are still some limitations, with only one guy over 6'10" and no true PG besides Watson. And keeping everybody perfectly happy with regards to minutes probably won't be possible. But varying the rotation based on match ups and on who is playing well wouldn't be the worst thing ever - make the opponents work on scouting how to stop Horne, Jack, Nana, Gill, Roby, Palmer, and Copeland on the wing.

 

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Copeland is 100% a 3, especially on offense, and if he's healthy, he'll start.  He's too valuable of a scorer to stay on the bench.  He's not a physical player at all, but could probably get away with guarding the 4.  Easily athletic enough to guard the 3 though.  

 

One blessing that might come from these rotation options is the ability to isolate Jordy in the post with 3pt threats in every other position.  You could potentially see a lineup of:

 

Watson

Akenten

McVeigh

Copeland

Jordy

 

If you're guarding that lineup, you can't anyone leave to double the post.  It'd be like we were watching someone else's team.   

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5 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

We watch freshmen come in here every year and struggle and yet I keep seeing Nana Akenten being thrown into the starting lineup of what we seem to think is our deepest team in the Miles era. Anyone else find this odd?

I do as well. Nana doesn't know the defensive schemes, and he won't play until he does. I one thing has been made clear under Miles it's that defensive mistakes won't be tolerated. 

 

Or something like that. 

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34 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

We watch freshmen come in here every year and struggle and yet I keep seeing Nana Akenten being thrown into the starting lineup of what we seem to think is our deepest team in the Miles era. Anyone else find this odd?

Haven't been able to slot him higher than 9th in any of roster predictions/ rotations. Freshman struggle and we are gonna be extremely deep at the 2 and 3 next year.

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8 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

We watch freshmen come in here every year and struggle and yet I keep seeing Nana Akenten being thrown into the starting lineup of what we seem to think is our deepest team in the Miles era. Anyone else find this odd?

 

If you look at my initial post, I was saying he'd be starting by the end of the year, not day one.  I think Taylor will have that locked up at the beginning of the year, honestly.  I said the same thing about Jordy and, last season, Watson last season... so is it really that strange?

 

Part of what Jordy, Nana, and Watson have going for them is that they're all true prototypes at their position.  We don't have anyone on the roster right now with Nana's athleticism/3pt combo at guard.  Similarly, we don't have anyone on the roster with Jordy's size as a true B1G center.  To me, it's about putting a complete team on the court.  If you go with the "best players" argument, you also have to account that a "best" player's skillset can be offset by playing out of position.  

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1 hour ago, LK1 said:

 

If you look at my initial post, I was saying he'd be starting by the end of the year, not day one.  I think Taylor will have that locked up at the beginning of the year, honestly.  I said the same thing about Jordy and, last season, Watson last season... so is it really that strange?

 

Part of what Jordy, Nana, and Watson have going for them is that they're all true prototypes at their position.  We don't have anyone on the roster right now with Nana's athleticism/3pt combo at guard.  Similarly, we don't have anyone on the roster with Jordy's size as a true B1G center.  To me, it's about putting a complete team on the court.  If you go with the "best players" argument, you also have to account that a "best" player's skillset can be offset by playing out of position.  

 

With all the players we have I think it's easier to replicate the shooting and defense that Nana might bring to the table vs the ball handling of Watson and the sheer size of Jordy.

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1 hour ago, hhcdimes said:

 

With all the players we have I think it's easier to replicate the shooting and defense that Nana might bring to the table vs the ball handling of Watson and the sheer size of Jordy.

 

I think we could replicate the shooting (McVeigh) or defense (Taylor, who I'm sure will actually be a better defender), but not the combination.  I think that's the part that makes Akenton unique on this roster.  He can shoot AND has the athleticism and length to guard the 2.  We don't have a player that can do that on the current roster.  

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I have no idea how good a defender Akenten might or might not be.  I'm willing to assume based on everything that we've heard that he's a more-than-adequate 3-point shooter and would be one of our statistical leaders in that category the moment he sets foot on campus.  He might not start.  But there's certainly precedent during the Miles era for freshmen to play immediately and have an impact.  Shavon Shields started as a true freshman as did Benny Parker at times, Tai Webster, Glynn Watson, and Michael Jacobson.  This year, two out of three freshmen have taken turns in the starting lineup.  All three have seen minutes in the primary rotation.

 

If Akenten's combination of athleticism and shooting ability make him more complete than our other options, and if he can D up, he'll see time on the floor, freshman or not.

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33 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Shavon Shields started as a true freshman as did Benny Parker at times, Tai Webster,

 

I'd give Akenten a lot better shot at starting games if he was coming in back in 2012 and 2013 with our roster back then.

If Nana is starting games a lot of games next year we either did a hell of a job in recruiting or we're garbage.

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SG transfers eligible to play '17-'18 season:

 

Gill, Taylor, Palmer

 

(Of the above group, Gill is out following surgery on a torn patella tendon and no idea how long he'll be in recovery, and Taylor is the worst 3-point shooter on the second-worst 3-point shooting team in the league.  Palmer is sight-unseen as is Akenten.  There's at least a decent chance that Akenten, who fits into a position of need, will see significant floor time next year.  So, I don't think it's crazy that people are hoping he'll be good enough to maybe even start.  The list of players he'd have to beat out isn't all that long.)

Edited by Norm Peterson
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It's fun to speculate and throw darts in the dark, but as we know, these roster spots have a way of sorting themselves out. Thank God at least we have options & bodies. I love me some Sek Henry & Cookie Miller, but 10 years ago if you would have told me players would be transferring in from KU and Georgetown I would have guessed you had an affinity for Robitussen...

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