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KZRider

The OSU Inbounds Play

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I have a couple of questions regarding how we defended the OSU inbounds play last night and would welcome your insights. One is a coaching decision and the other is a player's real time decision when Watson fell.

 

First: I am not certain I would have had a man on the player throwing the ball in. However, once the coach decided to do so, why choose Jacobson for that instead of Roby or perhaps even Jordy? They both have physical advantages over MJ that would seem to create more problems on the inbounds pass than Jacobson.

 

Second, Watson is beating himself up because he fell -- it looks to me like he had a lot of help falling from the foot of #2 but it was nothing egregious. However, stuff like that happens and, while it is incredibly easy to second guess someone after the fact, successful teams have players who make correct split second decisions when things go amiss. It looks to me like the real burden for this is on Roby's decision to leave his man which forced Tai to leave his man. My question is, did first Roby and then Tai make the correct basketball decisions and why? IMO, they, especially Roby, made the wrong choice for the following reasons:

 

1) It leaves one of two players with NO ONE between his man and the basket. Who did he expect to pick up his man once Watson fell?

2) It creates an easier inbounds pass than would have been the case to any other player even if #15 was left unguarded.

3) Tai is guarding OSU's best scoring threat for a reason and leaving that threat is the last thing Tai should do.

4) If ANYONE should have left their man to cover #15, it should have been Taylor whose unguarded man would have had to catch a ball outside the arc and put up a 3.

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

Edit: To be clear, IMO the principle onus on all of this is on Roby leaving his man. It makes Tai choose something he should not have had to choose.

Edited by KZRider

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First of all, I would have switched to a 2-3 zone for their inbound play instead of staying with man to man. 

2nd - I would have told the guy inbounding the ball to totally overplay toward the basket and make him throw it in the corner or up top.  If they hit a shot from there, then you live with it but don't give up a layout.  At least make them earn it. 

3rd - We should have never been in this situation to begin with.  If you just get the defensive rebound or Glynn hit 1 free throw or for heaven sake we get a dunk instead of a attempted layup from Jody, it's ball game. We put ourselves in the position to lose this game and we did.

 

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I posted this in the game thread.

 

This loss goes directly to whoever designed the out of bounds defense on game winning shot. The ball was being taken out of bounds at a point where Jacobsen has to cut off the angle so that Buckeyes can't have a lay up. He needed to be playing off the inbounders left hand about 5-6 feet and in line with the basket. This cuts off any lay up chances and also takes away any long passes that way as backboard is blocking any potential for a long cross court pass. And by playing off it also gives him time to read and possibly knock down/interecept a pass in that direction. In any last second defensive situation you want to force the offense to catch the ball moving away from the basket so the defense should've been forcing any potential shooter towards the OSU bench. I could've handled getting beat by a 15+ foot fade away but letting them drop the ball in the basket is unacceptable. I don't blame Watson at all. If Jacobsen is in the above described defensive position the pass can't be delivered to that spot and in bounder has to look for another option. This one falls directly to whoever gave defensive instructions in the last time out.

Edited by rr52

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Still think Glynn got help in falling, but no ref in America is going to call that.  

 

Same as the long throw to Tai at the end.

 

There was contact, a lot from where I sit, but as I said to my wife as we left.  #10 could of RKOed him and it would have been a no call.

 

Yeah she doesn't know what an RKO is either.;) 

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1 hour ago, rr52 said:

I posted this in the game thread.

 

This loss goes directly to whoever designed the out of bounds defense on game winning shot. The ball was being taken out of bounds at a point where Jacobsen has to cut off the angle so that Buckeyes can't have a lay up. He needed to be playing off the inbounders left hand about 5-6 feet and in line with the basket. This cuts off any lay up chances and also takes away any long passes that way as backboard is blocking any potential for a long cross court pass. And by playing off it also gives him time to read and possibly knock down/interecept a pass in that direction. In any last second defensive situation you want to force the offense to catch the ball moving away from the basket so the defense should've been forcing any potential shooter towards the OSU bench. I could've handled getting beat by a 15+ foot fade away but letting them drop the ball in the basket is unacceptable. I don't blame Watson at all. If Jacobsen is in the above described defensive position the pass can't be delivered to that spot and in bounder has to look for another option. This one falls directly to whoever gave defensive instructions in the last time out.

I agree with everything you say here completely. There is no reason for Jacobsen to not be guarding the basket in that situation.

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1.  A 2-3 zone should be implemented as KLDM suggested.  And a really packed in one.  There isn't really enough time for them to inbound the ball and make another pass and get a shot off that wouldn't be incredibly rushed.  If you have guys protecting the pain first, they should be sort of leaning towards getting out to the shooter if the ball is thrown in to their zone.  By keeping you head between your zone and the inbound guy it should be pretty easy to get out to pressure the shooter somewhat.  If you choose to guard the inbounder which I would do if I was in a zone then shade towards the hoop slightly.  Make the pass go to the near corner or somewhere at least on nearside from the top of key to the wing.  Then you can have what you deem to be your two best close out guys manning those areas of the zone.  If you play this way you are going to allow them to get a shot up.  But it is going to be a shot that should not be in great rhythm, and should be easily contested.  A shot that shouldn't go in more than a third of the time.  Once we have put ourselves in that position, that is the shot we need to live with them taking. 

 

2.  While I strongly advise against playing man, as it is too complicated against good movement, there are some things that must happen if you do.  I would possibly forego the inbound pressure and have him play a one man zone surrounded by the man to man everywhere else.  That one man zone is best shot altering guy playing a zone near the hoop.  Possibly Roby or Jacobsen.  If you do have the guy pressuring the ball, you have to have him strongly shading the paint so the ball cannot be thrown there.  You don't need to be jumping up and down, you need to be sagging off him just enough where you can still get to him if he gets the ball back quickly in the corner, but main priority is sagging to make the ball go to similar areas of the court that would happen if playing the 2-3 zone.  You need to shade the paint much more tough if in a man to man.  I would never play man to man in that spot, but if I did, I would guard the inbounder but quite a ways off him to take away a lot of passing angles that include all angles toward the hoop.  Basically not a hindering coverage, but a preventative coverage that still keeps him in touch with his man as there is just enough time to run a play for him to get it back quickly for a corner shot.  This is also assuming that the guy is a competent shooter, as it would still be a bit rushed and unlikely to be made. 

 

Missed RR post when typing this, we seem to be in complete agreement.  At least, I am in complete agreement with what he said.  Jacobsen was in terrible position, given the angle that they had. 

Edited by royalfan

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Jacobsen moved to the left on the fake which helped open up an even easier lane to the easy lay up....

 


in the heat of the moment, Tai and Roby might not have known that Watson had fallen down...they were both switching as instructed.

 

The only thing I would have done different was stick Jacobsen in the lane.

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3 hours ago, rr52 said:

I posted this in the game thread.

 

This loss goes directly to whoever designed the out of bounds defense on game winning shot. The ball was being taken out of bounds at a point where Jacobsen has to cut off the angle so that Buckeyes can't have a lay up. He needed to be playing off the inbounders left hand about 5-6 feet and in line with the basket. This cuts off any lay up chances and also takes away any long passes that way as backboard is blocking any potential for a long cross court pass. And by playing off it also gives him time to read and possibly knock down/interecept a pass in that direction. In any last second defensive situation you want to force the offense to catch the ball moving away from the basket so the defense should've been forcing any potential shooter towards the OSU bench. I could've handled getting beat by a 15+ foot fade away but letting them drop the ball in the basket is unacceptable. I don't blame Watson at all. If Jacobsen is in the above described defensive position the pass can't be delivered to that spot and in bounder has to look for another option. This one falls directly to whoever gave defensive instructions in the last time out.

 

I agree with what you said but even if MJ just stays where he is at the whole time he does block that path.  He is in good shape until the inbound fakes to the outside, MJ moves that way about half a man and that allows the inbounder to see the guy open the basket.  MJ just misses hitting as it is bounce passed in to the lane and well...  

 

If you also look the inbounder doesn't even look at the lane until the very end, we had it played just like every body said until Glynn fell down and MJ moved.  Because they were only looking to go outside with a fade away jumper. Or that is how I see it on the replay.

 

Sigh...

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I also agree with the thought of going zone, especially since OSU was out of time outs. Miles should've broke huddle and lined up in man to man defense and then called timeout and switched to the zone. Not sure if Buckeyes have a go to zone out of bounds play but showing the man and coming back out in zone may have been enough to confuse them.

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If you are playing a packed in zone you are giving them a wide open jump shot. We play very minimal zone and when we do it's been 1-3-1. We can second guess decisions but when you have Jake bite on a fake when he really only needs to prevent a pass into the lane, it's not going to end up well. Throw in the fluke of Glynn falling and you have the perfect storm. Sometimes weird shit happens. 

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They shouldn't get a wide open shot of any kind if playing a 2-3.  And if they do it should be from quite a long shot.  Wide open shots against zones come from penetrating the lane or passing the ball around well where the zone cannot move quick enough.  Those things aren't in play here.  That is exactly why the zone is the better option in this scenario.  Should easily be able to close out on the man catching the ball without it being a wide open, in rhythm shot. 

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The guys should be able to run it but have we even practiced a 2-3 zone the entire year? It's probably the right call defensively but how confident do you feel about running a defense that you might not have run for months?

 

We overthought this one a bit and hopefully we learn from that. 

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6 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

The guys should be able to run it but have we even practiced a 2-3 zone the entire year? It's probably the right call defensively but how confident do you feel about running a defense that you might not have run for months?

 

We overthought this one a bit and hopefully we learn from that. 

We are trying to blame coach for the last play, when in reality it came down to the simple fact that one of our players slipped.  As a coach you don't expect that to happen.  If he stays up, OSU probably has to make a tough shot to win the game.

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4 minutes ago, brfrad said:

As a coach you don't expect that to happen.

 

That's sort of the point of my "overthinking this one" comment.  We were switching because we were worried about Ohio St getting a good look.  With 1.8 left that should have been our second priority behind guarding the paint.  Did we tell Jacobson to make sure to guard for a pass towards the paint? 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

That's sort of the point of my "overthinking this one" comment.  We were switching because we were worried about Ohio St getting a good look.  With 1.8 left that should have been our second priority behind guarding the paint.  Did we tell Jacobson to make sure to guard for a pass towards the paint? 

 

 

I just watched the replay from behind the Ohio State player.  Jacobson looked like he was one step too far to the left.  I hope the coaches told him to guard the paint, but we don't know.  If you go too far right, you also run the risk of a lob at the rim.  We could rehash where everyone was, and if they were positioned properly, but it really doesn't matter if one player falls down.  Hopefully,  the coaches help Watson, as he was visibly upset that he let his team down.

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