Paul White - Georgetown transfer -> Oregon

[ajb5856]

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

[huskerbaseball13]

 

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

 

 

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.   

[Swan88]

Let's say, hypothetically, there is a rationale that we geniuses don't know about for holding back a scholarship.

Let's say, for a hypothetical example, that you give a second-semester scholarship to a walk-on who will, most assuredly, graduate. Perhaps that will shore-up graduation requirements that might be hurt by someone else leaving for no good reason.

This theory is as good as any of the this-is-ridiculous certainty some seem to have.

[ajb5856]

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.

Exactly. The last two seasons have been particularly frustrating record-wise. The unused scholarships Miles has had over the past seasons is not the reason we haven't been to the elite 8 and it's not the reason we've struggled. I know all the arguments about competition in practice and all of that but I really have to laugh at anyone saying Miles is an idiot or calling it a self imposed ban when a scholarship goes unfilled. Those scholarships could be used easily but they're going to go to a talent that's on the end of the bench. It's not like Miles is saying no to 4 and 5 star guys and leaving the 'ships open. He's doing a heckuva nice job top loading the roster with talent. Now I t's time for the talent he's brought in to develop and produce, and if they don't then that will be the reason Miles doesn't work out. But it won't be because he left scholarships open instead of bringing in bodies to fill a number requirement. I've heard far too many uneducated 'fans' call for Miles head this offseason with some of the reasons being 'he's an idiot/self-imposed ban' and this makes him unfit for a high major job.

Hopefully I'm not too far off, but if we see similar growth this year with the sophomores as we saw during the season last year, then a lot of people are going to be surprised. Get a spark from Gill and see promise from a couple freshman and people are going to be really surprised. I don't think things are as bleak as some are making it out to be. Season can't get here soon enough.

[Wayne Pesek]

 

 

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

 

 

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.   

 

Actually, he has.  At least one, sometimes two (or more!) each year.  Sometimes one will go to a walk-on.

[Section_316]

scholly thing is really simple-- we haven't been able to recruit and sign enough good players. Hence: we are losing. 

 

Not that hard to figure out. If you think we are leaving schollies open on purpose-- I have some ocean front property to sell you

[huskerdoo]

 

I'm sick of wearing my scarlet colored glasses for Husker hoops and Tim Smiles...tired of it. Five years in a row without a complete roster? WTH? Incompetence at best. How can anyone justify that. I ask ONE person to justify it...just one good reason.

No team goes 13 deep. There's 1.

 

Great logic - then we only need to have 10 players on the team...or maybe only 8 or 9 if we don't go 10 deep.  Minus 1

[hhcmatt]

 

 

 

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

 

 

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.   

 

Actually, he has.  At least one, sometimes two (or more!) each year.  Sometimes one will go to a walk-on.

 

 

This is Altman at Oregon, right?

[huskerbaseball13]

 

 

 

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

 

 

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.   

 

Actually, he has.  At least one, sometimes two (or more!) each year.  Sometimes one will go to a walk-on.

 

 

That definitely surprises me if he has done so...but I would say Oregon has more leeway in that they have the ability to consistently bring in top talent.  We have been able to sign some nice talent recently but where we stand as a program I don't think we can count on that every year.  We are going to need to find some under the radar talent and develop that said talent.  That's when signing that 13th kid may come in handy.  There may be some times when having that open scholarship late comes in handy....almost worked for us this year. And it almost worked for us last year when Elijah Thomas visited.  Perhaps a transfer will become available this year that we are interested in midseason. 

[huskerbaseball13]

Let's say, hypothetically, there is a rationale that we geniuses don't know about for holding back a scholarship.

Let's say, for a hypothetical example, that you give a second-semester scholarship to a walk-on who will, most assuredly, graduate. Perhaps that will shore-up graduation requirements that might be hurt by someone else leaving for no good reason.

This theory is as good as any of the this-is-ridiculous certainty some seem to have.

 

I think the rationale is that Miles doesn't feel the need to have 13 scholarship players on the roster.  He has said so in the past...he thinks the NCAA should go to 12 scholarships.  I'm sure he has a good reason for that...but as long as other programs have the ability to utilize 13 scholarships within the program I don't think its a good idea for us to always be short.  As for the graduate rationale...you may be on to something but if that was the case I don't think we would have been going after White and I don't think we would have brought Thomas in for a visit last year. 

[hhcmatt]

you may be on to something but if that was the case I don't think we would have been going after White and I don't think we would have brought Thomas in for a visit last year. 

 

Div 1 transfers, especially those over 6'9" and 240#, are the exception to any sort of recruiting strategy we follow.

[huskerbaseball13]

 

 

 

I think that puts Oregon's schollie use up from 11 to 12

Wow Dana Altman is leaving scholarships open?

I know you are joking but....I would be surprised if he has done so 5 years in a row. Either way, nobody would probably say a peep about not utilizing scholarships if we were coming off an elite 8 run as opposed to two losing seasons.

Exactly. The last two seasons have been particularly frustrating record-wise. The unused scholarships Miles has had over the past seasons is not the reason we haven't been to the elite 8 and it's not the reason we've struggled. I know all the arguments about competition in practice and all of that but I really have to laugh at anyone saying Miles is an idiot or calling it a self imposed ban when a scholarship goes unfilled. Those scholarships could be used easily but they're going to go to a talent that's on the end of the bench. It's not like Miles is saying no to 4 and 5 star guys and leaving the 'ships open. He's doing a heckuva nice job top loading the roster with talent. Now I t's time for the talent he's brought in to develop and produce, and if they don't then that will be the reason Miles doesn't work out. But it won't be because he left scholarships open instead of bringing in bodies to fill a number requirement. I've heard far too many uneducated 'fans' call for Miles head this offseason with some of the reasons being 'he's an idiot/self-imposed ban' and this makes him unfit for a high major job.

Hopefully I'm not too far off, but if we see similar growth this year with the sophomores as we saw during the season last year, then a lot of people are going to be surprised. Get a spark from Gill and see promise from a couple freshman and people are going to be really surprised. I don't think things are as bleak as some are making it out to be. Season can't get here soon enough.

 

 

I agree that in the end...if Miles fails, it's not going to be because he was never able to fill out a roster.  Half of the Big 10 this year won't have a full roster.  Not sure if those schools make it a habit of leaving roster spots open.  But why do you assume signing a full class that whoever gets that last scholarship will be sitting on the end of the bench? I think everyone agrees you don't sign a kid just to sign a kid...but I disagree if you think this program or staff is incapable of finding an additional talented guy in recruiting classes to round out the class.  This upcoming year we have 12 scholarship players on the roster....1 transfer that has to sit out, Nick Fuller who has been that bench player you speak of, 3 incoming true freshman, and a JUCO that shot 35% from the field and 18% from 3PT land last year.  You don't think it would have been nice to have an additional piece on board?  It eventually comes down to a numbers game...we are going to have busts/injuries/transfers, signing a full class can lessen the blow to some of that. 

[King James]

 

 

This is what Rosenthal is doing on his last day at the Lincoln Journal-Star:

 

so did we back off white or did dana talk him out of coming here?

 

 

Timing is everything: Oregon's semester started much later than NU's.

 

If you think the timing of start of the school year truly had anything to do with the decision making, I've got some land in Florida to sell to you.

[hhcmatt]

 

 

 

This is what Rosenthal is doing on his last day at the Lincoln Journal-Star:

 

so did we back off white or did dana talk him out of coming here?

 

 

Timing is everything: Oregon's semester started much later than NU's.

 

If you think the timing of start of the school year truly had anything to do with the decision making, I've got some land in Florida to sell to you.

 

You might just want to stick to chripin on cats out of the metro yo.

[HB]

scholly thing is really simple-- we haven't been able to recruit and sign enough good players. Hence: we are losing. 

 

Not that hard to figure out. If you think we are leaving schollies open on purpose-- I have some ocean front property to sell you

 

The first paragraph actually sums it up quite nicely.  I have said all along that is what is boils down to. (forgive me, Atskooc and Norm, for ending on a preposition)    Despite the better facilities, signing top level players to compete in a league like this is still extremely difficult here.  

 

The issue is what conclusions one draws from the accurate statement that we aren't signing enough good players.  

 

1.  Is what appears to be Miles' approach--don't just sign guys to fill a scholarship, if he doesn't feel the player can ultimately be successful at the power 5 level--the right one?   Recruit better players to the end, and if you lose them, that's the way it goes, and you're willing to have an open spot,  vs. moving quickly to the "B" list.  For the most part, I think that's what has happened after the Miles' first November class.  Bakari might be an exception; I don't count the Hawkins-Fuller class, as 6 months into the job is a late start in the recruiting cycle for a program builder type vs. a big name or Huggens-like guy.   I'm personally not as troubled by this approach as many on here.   If it all ends poorly for Miles, it won't be because we had a "self-imposed scholarship limitation", but because we just didn't sign enough high-level players to get over the hump.   

 

2.  Is the writing on the wall that we need to jettison Miles and start over once again?  That we can just go find someone who can  "sign enough good players".  Section 316, Huskerdoo, and perhaps a few others have gotten to that point.   I'm not there right now.  I question whether someone better than Miles, with better assistants then Kenya, Lewis, and Molinari, is out there willing to take this job.  

 

In looking at it historically, I think improvement has been shown.  From a talent identification standpoint, I think this staff is much improved over the past two.  I look at Jacobson as an example; Miles was convinced he was a Big 10 player, and it has been borne out.  I'm optimistic Watson and Horne will be other examples.  There are numerous examples of us getting on guys early, and sure enough, the big time programs start recruiting them, which should validate our eye for talent.   From a contrary viewpoint, one could point to the early offer to Arop (which is just flat-out puzzling), and missing on Khiry Thomas and Patton.    No one at a place where you have to recruit vs. select will be perfect, but IMO, this staff has a pretty good track record on who we offer.

 

From a signing standpoint, we've certainly advanced the ball considerably with regard to signing highly rated players.  The number of top 150 signees with Miles vs. what we've done historically has been quoted on here numerous times.  The problem is, we're not competing with what Nebraska has done historically, but with traditional powers with great coaches.  This league is a flat-out bitch.  We're signing much better players, and still probably losing ground.  That is painful.  From my standpoint, I would stay the course based on the signing of guys we historically haven't been able to get, like Tai, White, Petteway, Watson, Morrow, Jacobson, Gill, Roby (please get healthy), Tshimanga.  And hope we can gradually get even more.  Having said that, the 2017 class stands at 0, I believe, and we appear to be taking a step backward.  So far, there hasn't been a "Lewis bounce".   

 

Does this staff have a better chance of getting us away from being the football equivalent of Indiana and Illinois, than blowing it up and starting over again?  Some have given up already, and the bomb-lobbing on here will increase considerably this year if we struggle.  For me,  I will hope for success this year, to keep it on the rails.  

[atskooc]

I have no problem with ending a sentence on a preposition.  I don't think that rule was ever really a thing (other than a way for pedants to feel superior over the lesser folk).

 

As Churchill is often quoted (I have no idea of its validity): "That is something up with which I will not put."  Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

 

Carry on.

[Huskerpapa]

Here is a concept that I believe is worth exploring.  The football team has taken an ex-player, Kenny Wilhite, and provided him the position of Director of High School Relations.  Jeff Jamrog held a similar position with an Associate AD title.  Now I am not certain what that title and position fully entails, but I do know part of the description includes working with Nebraska HS coaches. 

 

Does the basketball team have a similar position?  Will NCAA rules allow such a position for basketball?  Can our budget sustain the position?  Would the position enhance our ability to cherry pick the very best basketball talent in NE for either a schollie or recruited walk-on?

[Red Don]

 

scholly thing is really simple-- we haven't been able to recruit and sign enough good players. Hence: we are losing. 

 

Not that hard to figure out. If you think we are leaving schollies open on purpose-- I have some ocean front property to sell you

 

The first paragraph actually sums it up quite nicely.  I have said all along that is what is boils down to. (forgive me, Atskooc and Norm, for ending on a preposition)    Despite the better facilities, signing top level players to compete in a league like this is still extremely difficult here.  

 

The issue is what conclusions one draws from the accurate statement that we aren't signing enough good players................

 

Does this staff have a better chance of getting us away from being the football equivalent of Indiana and Illinois, than blowing it up and starting over again?  Some have given up already, and the bomb-lobbing on here will increase considerably this year if we struggle.  For me,  I will hope for success this year, to keep it on the rails.  

 

 

Just This  .

 

Perspective from a long-suffering Husker Hoops fan (I'm not one, following MBB only since Coach Miles) after successive disappointments. 

 

The question is (any divorce attorney worth his salt would ask this):  'Are you better off with him; or without him?'

 

Do you get better coaches with him; or without him?

 

Are you better off with players like Tai, Jacobson, Watson or Morrow (just to name four) or Khiry, Patton, Tre'Shawn or Tra-Deon?

 

HB makes a pretty good case:  We haven't seen this amount of talent in a long time, if ever. And they've only begun to play; Some we haven't even seen yet!

 

If winning is the only thing that matters to folks, I guess we could just move to the Summit.

[AuroranHusker]

This about sums up the future role of Paul White on HHC as well:

 

[Fullbacksympathy]

Top to bottom, the B1G is the strongest league.  We have to have the talent in order to have a prayer, and Miles obviously knows this.  I think we're a year away from being able to really assess TM as a coach and developer of talent.  

 

In my mind, the big make-or-break evaluation year would be 2 years from now when Morrow, Jacobson, Watson and McVeigh are seniors with Jordy, Roby, and Horne as a junior.  At that point, we should be able to look at the roster in its entirety to see if the "talent culture" has, indeed, changed for the better from top to bottom.  All signs so far indicate that it will, but it's not certain until a couple more classes have been filled out.  Additionally, we should be able to use last year's freshman class as an accurate barometer of the staff's player development and in-game abilities.  Make the call then.  

 

Until then, I'm firmly in TM's corner, and I think the work he's done to this point has been brave--to take a couple of risks and work his tail off to get competitive talent through on the floor rather than settle on the "poor me, coach em up" level of talent the last couple of coaches worked with.  There were always going to be hiccups with his revolutionary approach.  

 

I'm excited to see our team defense this year. 

[colhusker]

 

 

 

This is what Rosenthal is doing on his last day at the Lincoln Journal-Star:

 

so did we back off white or did dana talk him out of coming here?

 

 

Timing is everything: Oregon's semester started much later than NU's.

 

If you think the timing of start of the school year truly had anything to do with the decision making, I've got some land in Florida to sell to you.

 

Do tell why

[Wayne Pesek]

I think most schools have vacant scholarships.  I'm not kidding when I say Oregon has had at least one, and usually two unfilled scholarships every year.  Maybe they are an exception, I only know about them (and Nebraska) and not about other teams.  Most schools lose at least one, sometimes two players to transfer every year, which actually makes it rather hard to keep all the scholarships filled.  It makes sense to have room on your roster for a potential late transfer (like Syracuse and Oregon did).  And if they have to then sit out a year, that just makes your practice squad that much better.  I'm not as concerned about the vacant scholarships, as I am about the talent level of the players currently on scholarship.  I think the last two recruiting classes have improved that talent level, but more steps need to be taken to compete in the top half of the conference.  I would like to have seen the addition of a JC big man.  Even if he turned out to be only average, or below, it would have only been risking a two-year investment.

[huskerbaseball13]

I think most schools have vacant scholarships.  I'm not kidding when I say Oregon has had at least one, and usually two unfilled scholarships every year.  Maybe they are an exception, I only know about them (and Nebraska) and not about other teams.  Most schools lose at least one, sometimes two players to transfer every year, which actually makes it rather hard to keep all the scholarships filled.  It makes sense to have room on your roster for a potential late transfer (like Syracuse and Oregon did).  And if they have to then sit out a year, that just makes your practice squad that much better.  I'm not as concerned about the vacant scholarships, as I am about the talent level of the players currently on scholarship.  I think the last two recruiting classes have improved that talent level, but more steps need to be taken to compete in the top half of the conference.  I would like to have seen the addition of a JC big man.  Even if he turned out to be only average, or below, it would have only been risking a two-year investment.

 

As I pointed out earlier...7 of the 14 Big Ten schools right now have one or more open scholarships.  Not sure if all of those schools have done it year after year.  While some years I agree it may make sense to hold on to the scholarship if a transfer becomes available...it almost worked out in our favor this year.  But, obviously we have yet to use that scholarship on a late transfer to this point as we always have at least 1 available.  I'm not sure if Oregon vs NU is a really fair comparison as we just don't have the same pull in the recruiting world right now.  Altman has signed a dozen 4-5 stars since his time at OU...not including transfers, Tim Miles has signed three four stars while at Nebraska.  I'm not bashing Miles by saying that...I think he has done a good job in getting talent into the program but that's just reality.  We don't really have the luxury that an Oregon has.  We are still going to need to find some under the radar type guys that can fill a need in the program.  And by not utilizing that last scholarship over and over again you are only decreasing your chances at putting together a winning roster IMO.   

[huskerdoo]

Top to bottom, the B1G is the strongest league.  We have to have the talent in order to have a prayer, and Miles obviously knows this.  I think we're a year away from being able to really assess TM as a coach and developer of talent.  

 

In my mind, the big make-or-break evaluation year would be 2 years from now when Morrow, Jacobson, Watson and McVeigh are seniors with Jordy, Roby, and Horne as a junior.  At that point, we should be able to look at the roster in its entirety to see if the "talent culture" has, indeed, changed for the better from top to bottom.  All signs so far indicate that it will, but it's not certain until a couple more classes have been filled out.  Additionally, we should be able to use last year's freshman class as an accurate barometer of the staff's player development and in-game abilities.  Make the call then.  

 

Until then, I'm firmly in TM's corner, and I think the work he's done to this point has been brave--to take a couple of risks and work his tail off to get competitive talent through on the floor rather than settle on the "poor me, coach em up" level of talent the last couple of coaches worked with.  There were always going to be hiccups with his revolutionary approach.  

 

I'm excited to see our team defense this year. 

So we now should be giving a head coach 7 years to prove himself?  Can't say I agree.

[Swan88]

Does the seven years (or whatever the number is) begin before or after the coach wins National Coach of the Year for taking a low-stars team to the upper-third of the B1G?