Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AuroranHusker

Tyronn Lue is the new Head Coach of the Cavs

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

LeBron is conservatively one of the top 5 NBA players of all-time

 

 

Top ten yes.

 

Top five not so much.  When people point out (rightly) that kawhi Leonard actually plays defense.. well... they're right.

 

The question isn't whether LeBron could play defense more and blow Leonard out of the water as a player.

 

He just doesnt.

 

He doesn't have the same drive and killer instinct as the true upper echelon.  Just isn't in his personality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kleitus said:

 

 

Top ten yes.

 

Top five not so much.  When people point out (rightly) that kawhi Leonard actually plays defense.. well... they're right.

 

The question isn't whether LeBron could play defense more and blow Leonard out of the water as a player.

 

He just doesnt.

 

He doesn't have the same drive and killer instinct as the true upper echelon.  Just isn't in his personality.

 

All defensive teams for Jimmy's top 5.

Kareem - 11x

Jordan - 9x (1 Def POY)

Bird - 3x 

Magic - 0x

Bill Russell (Award wasn't established until his last year in the league)

 

LeBron - 6x

 

It would seem that LeBron has been a good enough defender in the league to be named to the team 6 times.  He probably has the capacity to be the best defensive player in the NBA if he wanted to...would winning that title in the regular season be beneficial for the team's goal to win the championship?  Doubtful.

Would you say that Magic Johnson also didn't possess drive and killer instinct because he didn't care enough to be a top level defensive player?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

All defensive teams for Jimmy's top 5.

Kareem - 11x

Jordan - 9x (1 Def POY)

Bird - 3x 

Magic - 0x

Bill Russell (Award wasn't established until his last year in the league)

 

LeBron - 6x

 

It would seem that LeBron has been a good enough defender in the league to be named to the team 6 times.  He probably has the capacity to be the best defensive player in the NBA if he wanted to...would winning that title in the regular season be beneficial for the team's goal to win the championship?  Doubtful.

Would you say that Magic Johnson also didn't possess drive and killer instinct because he didn't care enough to be a top level defensive player?_

 

 

They give him that because when he tries he is that good.

 

Everyone knows it.

 

Everyone also knows he doesn't always try.

 

Look when he gives his all the entire court tilts one way.  No one is denying that.

 

I heard a sport writer say once years ago that Jordan was the rarest of all athletes -- a supremely talented overachiever.

 

LeBron is supremely talented.  He doesn't have the drive to be the greatest so gets docked major points when compared to the greatest.

Edited by kleitus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, colhusker said:

Jacob are you another of the many youngins with a major man crush on Lebron? :)

 

I join this list of youngins, though I'm Lebron's age.  

 

I think he's the best 32 year old player ever--better than Jordan at the same age in almost every category.  Everyone makes the Jordan 6-0 in the Finals claim, but that's dumb.  Lebron made the Finals at the same age Jordan was getting bounced out of the first rounds.  The "clutch" claim is also completely bogus, and the stats back this up as well.  We've never seen this caliber of athlete--one who does all this while weighing 40-50lbs more than Patrick Ewing.  

 

The only players I've ever been this impressed with as individual players are MJ (career) and Shaq (99-01).  I'm guessing Kareem would be as well, but I never got to see him in his prime.  

 

Top 10:

1. MJ (for now)

2. Shaq

3. Lebron (for now)

4. Kareem

5. Magic

6. Duncan

7. Kobe

8. Bird

9. Garnett

10. Pippen (most underrated player ever)

 

Squad:  Magic, MJ, LBJ, Duncan, Shaq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, kleitus said:

LeBron is supremely talented.  He doesn't have the drive to be the greatest so gets docked major points when compared to the greatest.

 

What in the world are you basing this on?  Lebron is the best conditioned athlete in the league, and the league's most versatile defender.  He has three rings and seven straight trips to the finals.  He beat one of the best teams ever assembled last year, and it was the greatest individual performance in Finals history.  I don't understand what else people need from the guy to consider him one of the GOATs.  

 

If Lebron wasn't a great passer and decided to score 40 every night as a volume shooter, I bet people would like him more.  He'd be an "assassin" then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, LK1 said:

 

I join this list of youngins, though I'm Lebron's age.  

 

I think he's the best 32 year old player ever--better than Jordan at the same age in almost every category.  Everyone makes the Jordan 6-0 in the Finals claim, but that's dumb.  Lebron made the Finals at the same age Jordan was getting bounced out of the first rounds.  The "clutch" claim is also completely bogus, and the stats back this up as well.  We've never seen this caliber of athlete--one who does all this while weighing 40-50lbs more than Patrick Ewing.  

 

The only players I've ever been this impressed with as individual players are MJ (career) and Shaq (99-01).  I'm guessing Kareem would be as well, but I never got to see him in his prime.  

 

Top 10:

1. MJ (for now)

2. Shaq

3. Lebron (for now)

4. Kareem

5. Magic

6. Duncan

7. Kobe

8. Bird

9. Garnett

10. Pippen (most underrated player ever)

 

Squad:  Magic, MJ, LBJ, Duncan, Shaq

Stats have to take era into account.

 

Jordan would have scored 20 in free throws every night in this league.

 

It is different eras statistically.

 

Also for whoever said magic should be lower because of lack of defense... yes.  That wasn't my list.  If anything bird is too low on most lists because his d was good and he was a stupidly good shooter late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, LK1 said:

 

What in the world are you basing this on?  Lebron is the best conditioned athlete in the league, and the league's most versatile defender.  He has three rings and seven straight trips to the finals.  He beat one of the best teams ever assembled last year, and it was the greatest individual performance in Finals history.  I don't understand what else people need from the guy to consider him one of the GOATs.  

 

If Lebron wasn't a great passer and decided to score 40 every night as a volume shooter, I bet people would like him more.  He'd be an "assassin" then.

 

 

You just made my point for me.

 

You can't take random weeks off every month during the regular season and then turn it on in the playoffs every year and complain constantly about supporting cast.... then go win anyway.

 

He doesn't put in effort consistently.  Sure the finals were great.  That team should win 70.  What did they win... 56?

 

Why?  Because lebron ain't trying.

 

Somehow because he tries in the playoffs that excuses him.

 

Sure... he won that title singlehandedly.  He could probably win 65-70 singlehandedly too.  Every year.

 

He doesn't try.  Until he does.

 

If he actually tried he would be in the top 2.  He doesnt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, kleitus said:

Jordan would have scored 20 in free throws every night in this league.

 

It is different eras statistically.

 

No, he wouldn't have.  Defense is way more physical now, particular on-ball.  I think he would've still gotten to the line plenty though (he got a LOT of calls in his prime).  Jordan would've dominated today because of his supreme athleticism, but not more than he did then.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LK1 said:

 

No, he wouldn't have.  Defense is way more physical now, particular on-ball.  I think he would've still gotten to the line plenty though (he got a LOT of calls in his prime).  Jordan would've dominated today because of his supreme athleticism, but not more than he did then.  

 

 

Lmao... yeah no... no it isnt more physical now than then.

 

They made rule changes several years ago so scoring went up and guards were less challenged.

 

Jordan was a guard.

 

20 in free throws... and yes because of athleticism... but the game is called differently.  That was the Charles Oakley and Karl Malone era.  Guards were abused.

 

It isn't like the guy couldn't shoot 3s.   Sheesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kleitus said:

 

 

You just made my point for me.

 

You can't take random weeks off every month during the regular season and then turn it on in the playoffs every year and complain constantly about supporting cast.... then go win anyway.

 

He doesn't put in effort consistently.  Sure the finals were great.  That team should win 70.  What did they win... 56?

 

Why?  Because lebron ain't trying.

 

Somehow because he tries in the playoffs that excuses him.

 

Sure... he won that title singlehandedly.  He could probably win 65-70 singlehandedly too.  Every year.

 

He doesn't try.  Until he does.

 

If he actually tried he would be in the top 2.  He doesnt.

 

If a marathon runner doesn't sprint out of the gate, is he not trying?  Or is he smarter because he cares more about championships than winning the first leg?  Keep in mind Lebron has already played more total playoff games in his career than Jordan did, and only 10 less games than Jordan played in his entire career and has averaged more minutes per game during that time.  His durability has been insane.

 

He didn't take two years off for a gambling addiction.  He didn't miss a whole season with an injury.  He has played huge minutes the entire time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LK1 said:

 

If a marathon runner doesn't sprint out of the gate, is he not trying?  Or is he smarter because he cares more about championships than winning the first leg?  Keep in mind Lebron has already played more total playoff games in his career than Jordan did, and only 10 less games than Jordan played in his entire career and has averaged more minutes per game during that time.  His durability has been insane.

 

He didn't take two years off for a gambling addiction.  He didn't miss a whole season with an injury.  He has played huge minutes the entire time.  

 

...and yet if he actually tried they would win more.  And yes... if a marathon runner takes his sweet time out of the gate he might still win the race but his overall time won't be among the best ever.  So he aint.

 

If he was any less talented he would be a flake.  But he's a freak of nature so somehow he is excused.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, kleitus said:

 

...and yet if he actually tried they would win more.  And yes... if a marathon runner takes his sweet time out of the gate he might still win the race but his overall time won't be among the best ever.  So he aint.

 

If he was any less talented he would be a flake.  But he's a freak of nature so somehow he is excused.

 

There is a mental approach to the game, as well, which also requires championship effort.  I'll take Coach Popovich's approach over your understanding.  Sorry.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love coach pop.... like coach Jackson too... any bets how he'd react if Jordan or kobe took several weeks per year and decided they didn't want to try as hard?

 

Yeah... sorry.  Lebron is very good but he made the conscious choice to not maximize his talents.  He could have been... but isnt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, kleitus said:

If he was any less talented he would be a flake.

 

 

Which is an argument that can be made with any athlete in the history of ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, atskooc said:

Which is an argument that can be made with any athlete in the history of ever.

 

 

Fair to an extent... lol...  but you're comparing guys (mostly taking eras and relative levels of physical training into account) and seeing where they stand and none of the other players on the lists that I've seen have taken huge parts of multiple seasons and coasted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kleitus said:

Love coach pop.... like coach Jackson too... any bets how he'd react if Jordan or kobe took several weeks per year and decided they didn't want to try as hard?

 

Yeah... sorry.  Lebron is very good but he made the conscious choice to not maximize his talents.  He could have been... but isnt.

 

Jackson was probably pretty pissed when Jordan took off two entire years because of a gambling addiction.

 

No hate here for Kobe.  The guy was a warrior, but he also had injuries and plenty of missed games--a lot more than Lebron.  

 

Also, where are you getting this "weeks per year" crap from?  Lebron played way more games per season than both of those guys.  

 

Read this.  I'm done:  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15877630/six-year-workload-lebron-james-unlike-anything-league-history  ... your claim that Lebron takes games off is literally the opposite of who he--the most durable player ever.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LK1 said:

 

Jackson was probably pretty pissed when Jordan took off two entire years because of a gambling addiction.

 

No hate here for Kobe.  The guy was a warrior, but he also had injuries and plenty of missed games--a lot more than Lebron.  

 

Also, where are you getting this "weeks per year" crap from?  Lebron played way more games per season than both of those guys.  

 

Read this.  I'm done:  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15877630/six-year-workload-lebron-james-unlike-anything-league-history  ... your claim that Lebron takes games off is literally the opposite of who he--the most durable player ever.  

 

 

Playing games doesn't equate to giving full effort in those games.  I can show up and not do crap at work too.  I dont.

 

Cal ripken played tons of games.  Kareem played tons of games.  Lots of guys have played tons of games.

 

Do you show up with full effort every time at those games?

 

He doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, kleitus said:

 

 

Fair to an extent... lol...  but you're comparing guys (mostly taking eras and relative levels of physical training into account) and seeing where they stand and none of the other players on the lists that I've seen have taken huge parts of multiple seasons and coasted.

Could you point out the "huge portions of multiple seasons" where LeBron "coasted," please?

 

I wouldn't mind some numbers to prove his coasting, because, honestly, I don't believe you. I do believe you are talking out of your ass.

Edited by atskooc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, kleitus said:

 

 

Playing games doesn't equate to giving full effort in those games.  I can show up and not do crap at work too.  I dont.

 

Cal ripken played tons of games.  Kareem played tons of games.  Lots of guys have played tons of games.

 

Do you show up with full effort every time at those games?

 

He doesn't.

Kareem spent so little time playing defense in the latter part of his career that it even became a joke in the movie Airplane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 minutes ago, atskooc said:

Kareem spent so little time playing defense in the latter part of his career that it even became a joke in the movie Airplane.

 

 True lol...

 

If lebron plays as long as kareem he'll get the same leeway from me.

Edited by kleitus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, atskooc said:

Could you point out the "huge portions of multiple seasons" where Lebron "coasted," please?

 

I wouldn't mind some numbers to prove his coasting, because, honestly, I don't believe you. I believe you are talking out of your ass.

 

This year... 51 wins..  They're destroying a 1 seed in the playoffs and nobody gave the celts and chance.  Because everyone knows he aint trying til the playoffs.

 

Last year it was a running commentary that he was ridiculous in the playoffs compared to the regular season.

 

There's more.. and I would dig up stats.. but I'm moving and have to get back to it.

Edited by kleitus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

last night in a must win Lebron Scored or assisted on 18 of their last 20 points for the game.  That's pretty clutch in my opinion.  Plus you add in the amount of minutes he has played over the years and it is impressive.  hard to believe he hasn't had more injuries. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kleitus said:

LeBron is supremely talented.  He doesn't have the drive to be the greatest so gets docked major points when compared to the greatest.

 

The flaw in this thinking is that giving forth the most amount of effort at all times is the same thing as drive for greatness.

It would seem to me that LeBron's approach is to try and play at an MVP type level for as long as he can and try to win as many championships as he can during that time. 

I don't watch much NBA so I don't know how much he might coast nor how much other NBA players might coast during the regular season. Given the number of minutes he plays at his age...he should coast.  The aforementioned Popovich is fairly notorious for limiting his guys during the regular season to keep them fresh for the playoffs.

 

Jordan retired at 34 as one of the best in the NBA and then came back for an encore at the age of 38.  At this rate LeBron will still probably be one of the best between the ages of 34 and 38.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×