Nebraska high school talent

[basketballjones]

The reason I brought this up is when Nee was here we seemed to be able to get a solid contributor from Nebraska every few years. It would make recruiting so much easier for coach Miles and staff if we produced some legit D-1 talent. I know there have been a few D-1 players but just seems to be really down compared to the ladies sports.

You're onto something with your, "Nee found a solid contributor..."

I've been arguing for years that there has to be kids we're flatout missing in this state who could be incredible contributors after a couple years. We're just unwilling to make an investment on a kid who just is who he is and you know exactly what they'll be in a few years. Everyone is so worried about potential and athleticism. Finding possible NBA products who can dunk, block shots, and have a 80" wingspan.

Not all 5 guys have to have those qualities, and certainly not all 13 scholarships need to be filled with that. Sometimes you can just find a "basketball player," who has skills, can shoot, knows the game really well, and plays hard. Regardless of size and athleticism.

For the poster who said why aren't D2 and NAIA teams completely dominating then? Well it takes a whole team to win, not just one player. No one is saying there are 20 kids out there a year from Nebraska who are flying under the radar. But there certainly has to be a couple we miss out on.

Nick Reed at Doane just scored over 2,000 points in his career - what if we had brought him in knowing he can shoot, and has a great build (6'4", 215lbs)? May never get 20ppg here, but by his junior or senior year could be a great role player or contributor. Who knows?

Connor Beranek has a couple 40 point games this year at UNK, and has them playing their best ball in quite a while. And hell, he's 6'7" -- same with Ethan Brozek who is doing great things for them this year.

We'll never find Pettaway's consistently in the state of Nebraska. And Stricklands are a once-in-a-generation players. But I fully believe there are role players and contributors out there who we are missing out on because we'd rather take a kid from out of state who is "athletic." Doc Sadlers classes were full of that crap, when we could have had much more solid, reliable players.

I got blasted on here not too far back by suggesting Miles try a sway a fringe prospect to walk on with the idea that they could possibly develop into a contributer off the bench. I do know he invited Beranek to come try out for a walk on spot but Beranek wanted to go to Doane instead.

But that's entirely my point - Connor Beranek has earned the right to go to college for free to play basketball - he shouldn't have to be swayed to walk on somewhere. Just not fair to him in my opinion. You have to take a "chance," on guys like this sometimes. And I put chance in quotations here because in all reality it's exactly opposite of taking a chance. You know EXACTLY what he'd provide for you down the line. He can only exceed your expectations.

You're taking a chance when you recruit some raw, moderately athletically gifted player, just because of the allure of what he could be.

[basketballjones]

The reason I brought this up is when Nee was here we seemed to be able to get a solid contributor from Nebraska every few years. It would make recruiting so much easier for coach Miles and staff if we produced some legit D-1 talent. I know there have been a few D-1 players but just seems to be really down compared to the ladies sports.

You're onto something with your, "Nee found a solid contributor..."

I've been arguing for years that there has to be kids we're flatout missing in this state who could be incredible contributors after a couple years. We're just unwilling to make an investment on a kid who just is who he is and you know exactly what they'll be in a few years. Everyone is so worried about potential and athleticism. Finding possible NBA products who can dunk, block shots, and have a 80" wingspan.

Not all 5 guys have to have those qualities, and certainly not all 13 scholarships need to be filled with that. Sometimes you can just find a "basketball player," who has skills, can shoot, knows the game really well, and plays hard. Regardless of size and athleticism.

For the poster who said why aren't D2 and NAIA teams completely dominating then? Well it takes a whole team to win, not just one player. No one is saying there are 20 kids out there a year from Nebraska who are flying under the radar. But there certainly has to be a couple we miss out on.

Nick Reed at Doane just scored over 2,000 points in his career - what if we had brought him in knowing he can shoot, and has a great build (6'4", 215lbs)? May never get 20ppg here, but by his junior or senior year could be a great role player or contributor. Who knows?

Connor Beranek has a couple 40 point games this year at UNK, and has them playing their best ball in quite a while. And hell, he's 6'7" -- same with Ethan Brozek who is doing great things for them this year.

We'll never find Pettaway's consistently in the state of Nebraska. And Stricklands are a once-in-a-generation players. But I fully believe there are role players and contributors out there who we are missing out on because we'd rather take a kid from out of state who is "athletic." Doc Sadlers classes were full of that crap, when we could have had much more solid, reliable players.

I got blasted on here not too far back by suggesting Miles try a sway a fringe prospect to walk on with the idea that they could possibly develop into a contributer off the bench. I do know he invited Beranek to come try out for a walk on spot but Beranek wanted to go to Doane instead.

But that's entirely my point - Connor Beranek has earned the right to go to college for free to play basketball - he shouldn't have to be swayed to walk on somewhere. Just not fair to him in my opinion. You have to take a "chance," on guys like this sometimes. And I put chance in quotations here because in all reality it's exactly opposite of taking a chance. You know EXACTLY what he'd provide for you down the line. He can only exceed your expectations.

You're taking a chance when you recruit some raw, moderately athletically gifted player, just because of the allure of what he could be.

[hhcmatt]

But that's entirely my point - Connor Beranek has earned the right to go to college for free to play basketball - he shouldn't have to be swayed to walk on somewhere. Just not fair to him in my opinion. You have to take a "chance," on guys like this sometimes. And I put chance in quotations here because in all reality it's exactly opposite of taking a chance. You know EXACTLY what he'd provide for you down the line. He can only exceed your expectations.

You're taking a chance when you recruit some raw, moderately athletically gifted player, just because of the allure of what he could be.

 

Circling back around, there are 330 or so Div 1 schools.  

Why didn't Beranek receive an offer from any other school?  Why didn't he receive an offer from UNO?

[AuroranHusker]

FWIW, there are 350+ Div. 1 basketball programs now...

[TheGov21]

 

But that's entirely my point - Connor Beranek has earned the right to go to college for free to play basketball - he shouldn't have to be swayed to walk on somewhere. Just not fair to him in my opinion. You have to take a "chance," on guys like this sometimes. And I put chance in quotations here because in all reality it's exactly opposite of taking a chance. You know EXACTLY what he'd provide for you down the line. He can only exceed your expectations.

You're taking a chance when you recruit some raw, moderately athletically gifted player, just because of the allure of what he could be.

 

Circling back around, there are 330 or so Div 1 schools.  

Why didn't Beranek receive an offer from any other school?  Why didn't he receive an offer from UNO?

 

 

That's a great point, how come UNO didn't go after him at least?

[husker32480]

We could use a shooter like Conner with the way Rey is shooting now, not saying he is a scholarship player but he would help open the floor for drives to the bucket. 

[basketballjones]

But that's entirely my point - Connor Beranek has earned the right to go to college for free to play basketball - he shouldn't have to be swayed to walk on somewhere. Just not fair to him in my opinion. You have to take a "chance," on guys like this sometimes. And I put chance in quotations here because in all reality it's exactly opposite of taking a chance. You know EXACTLY what he'd provide for you down the line. He can only exceed your expectations.

You're taking a chance when you recruit some raw, moderately athletically gifted player, just because of the allure of what he could be.

Circling back around, there are 330 or so Div 1 schools.

Why didn't Beranek receive an offer from any other school? Why didn't he receive an offer from UNO?

Do you know he didn't?

There's a lot more to a recruitment than you guys know when it comes to offers/interests.

And to your point about the other 350 schools... Hasn't this been beaten to death enough? Why would any other school, especially nowhere near Nebraska, travel to Ravenna to find role players when they can probably find their own role players in their own states?

Also, he did receive quite a bit attention from some MVC schools, and I believe (don't quote me on this please), had a contingent offer with Northern Iowa. He just wasn't interested.

And again, this is all just my theory and idea. You can always beat down theories with specifics instances and whatnot, but I think my logic is pretty sound, and in general, we could do a better job of finding some damn decent contributors out of the state of Nebraska versus going to wherever the hell we found Kyle Marks, et al.

[TheKamdyMan]

 

 

Do you know he didn't?

There's a lot more to a recruitment than you guys know when it comes to offers/interests.

And to your point about the other 350 schools... Hasn't this been beaten to death enough? Why would any other school, especially nowhere near Nebraska, travel to Ravenna to find role players when they can probably find their own role players in their own states?

Also, he did receive quite a bit attention from some MVC schools, and I believe (don't quote me on this please), had a contingent offer with Northern Iowa. He just wasn't interested.

And again, this is all just my theory and idea. You can always beat down theories with specifics instances and whatnot, but I think my logic is pretty sound, and in general, we could do a better job of finding some damn decent contributors out of the state of Nebraska versus going to wherever the hell we found Kyle Marks, et al.

 

 

Show me a kid that turns down a D-1 offer to play for a NAIA school and I will show you someone you dont want on your team.  You can say hes a great kid, and Im sure he is, but if he got a D1 offer (which I doubt because the staffs at HOL, Huskerland Preps, etc are on top of that stuff) and didnt take it it shows me a guy that doesnt want to even take a chance at the highest level of competition.

[hhctony]

I have to chime in here because I think the amount of select teams that we have in the state is ridiculous. Kids don't learn how to be teammates anymore, they just focus on their own game. It's THE reason high school basketball is so bad right now. Kids only play together in season, unless they are from a small school. Right up the road in Ravenna, is a freshman who Paul Beranek will tell you is better than ANY of his sons. Already a 6-3 point guard and all the skills. I'd be SHOCKED if Miles doesn't recruit this kid starting next year and land him. 

 

But, back to my original point. Kids do these select teams because they think it gets them recruited better. I'll contend until they throw me in my grave that I'd rather have a kid who is a year-round teammate and is developed by a high school coach. In the time that most suggest here at the "hay-day" of Nebraska hoops, was from about 1989 - 1994. When you go to the state tournament next week, you'll have find that three of the top-five all-time state tournament scorers played in the 1989 state tournament: Glock (Nebraska), Steve Simon (I believe NW Missouri State) and Jay Spearman (Wesleyan). During this time, Nebraska was really good, UNK was transitioning to a D-II power (with guys like Ryan Samelson and Kenya Crandall) and Hastings, Concordia, Doane and Wesleyan were consistently ranked in the top-25 of the small school. Wesleyan won a D-III title in 1998, I think. We had ONE select team in the whole state at that time. ONE.

 

I'll hop off my soap box. 

[Huskerpapa]

Put shot clocks in Class A and perhaps Class B...who says that there cannot be minor differences in how the game is played throughout the state.

[TheKamdyMan]

I have to chime in here because I think the amount of select teams that we have in the state is ridiculous. Kids don't learn how to be teammates anymore, they just focus on their own game. It's THE reason high school basketball is so bad right now. Kids only play together in season, unless they are from a small school. Right up the road in Ravenna, is a freshman who Paul Beranek will tell you is better than ANY of his sons. Already a 6-3 point guard and all the skills. I'd be SHOCKED if Miles doesn't recruit this kid starting next year and land him. 

 

But, back to my original point. Kids do these select teams because they think it gets them recruited better. I'll contend until they throw me in my grave that I'd rather have a kid who is a year-round teammate and is developed by a high school coach. In the time that most suggest here at the "hay-day" of Nebraska hoops, was from about 1989 - 1994. When you go to the state tournament next week, you'll have find that three of the top-five all-time state tournament scorers played in the 1989 state tournament: Glock (Nebraska), Steve Simon (I believe NW Missouri State) and Jay Spearman (Wesleyan). During this time, Nebraska was really good, UNK was transitioning to a D-II power (with guys like Ryan Samelson and Kenya Crandall) and Hastings, Concordia, Doane and Wesleyan were consistently ranked in the top-25 of the small school. Wesleyan won a D-III title in 1998, I think. We had ONE select team in the whole state at that time. ONE.

 

I'll hop off my soap box. 

 

My only rebuttal to that is why are other states with the same set-up still producing players at a normal rate yet somehow Nebraska is the one that has fallen off?

[hhctony]

I think the other emphasis, Kamdy on that flip side of this is that kids have gotten much better at and turned football into a year round sport. In the late 80s, early 90s we were not churning out a huge number of D1 footballers. Now, we have D1 kids playing 8-man for Pete's sake. So it is probably part that as well. But, I think for the most part the reason high school hoops is that way kids just don't play as much together with their high school teammates anymore. 

[TheKamdyMan]

I think the other emphasis, Kamdy on that flip side of this is that kids have gotten much better at and turned football into a year round sport. In the late 80s, early 90s we were not churning out a huge number of D1 footballers. Now, we have D1 kids playing 8-man for Pete's sake. So it is probably part that as well. But, I think for the most part the reason high school hoops is that way kids just don't play as much together with their high school teammates anymore. 

 

Oh I understand your point my question is more towards why is it other states have the same watered down AAU systems yet still produce at the same rate yet Nebraska fell behind.  Why do the Nebraska kids have to be different from every other state that they have to play together more to get better?  I'm just curious because for example Oregon has had 6 new "elite" AAU teams pop up over the past 5 years to spread talent thin but they are still getting on average 3-6 D1 players a year just as before.  So why is it Nebraska cant still be producing any high level talent just because its been spread out.  Its really an interesting topic that would be hard to research but would be fascinating to get a reason why.

[hhcmatt]

I have to chime in here because I think the amount of select teams that we have in the state is ridiculous. 

 

Select team = AAU, right?

Obvious this is from a fairly small sample size, but there seems to be some differing opinions that Nebraska kids either don't have enough AAU ball or else have too much and you can easily make an argument that both opinions are correct.

[huskerchode]

Not sure about the boys' club teams in this state, but with some of the more successful girls' club teams I know the clubs really put an emphasis on skills.  Sure, they want to win big games, but they spend a lot of time from day 1 working on skills and doing drills.  My daughter played club basketball for many years, and it was interesting to see how many other clubs only had kids running plays and scrimmaging.  About 80% of the practice time in our club was spent on skills and running drills.  And her team was very successful.  They also practiced a fraction of the time that other clubs did, allowing the kids to play other sports.  That, in my opinion, is the way to do things.

[hhcmatt]

Do you know he didn't?

There's a lot more to a recruitment than you guys know when it comes to offers/interests.

And to your point about the other 350 schools... Hasn't this been beaten to death enough? Why would any other school, especially nowhere near Nebraska, travel to Ravenna to find role players when they can probably find their own role players in their own states?

Also, he did receive quite a bit attention from some MVC schools, and I believe (don't quote me on this please), had a contingent offer with Northern Iowa. He just wasn't interested.

And again, this is all just my theory and idea. You can always beat down theories with specifics instances and whatnot, but I think my logic is pretty sound, and in general, we could do a better job of finding some damn decent contributors out of the state of Nebraska versus going to wherever the hell we found Kyle Marks, et al.

 

 

I don't necessarily know that Connor didn't receive a scholarship offer from another Div I school.

I can easily believe he had interest from other Div 1 schools but was it also to walk on?

 

I get your point about role players...a good team would have a combination of difference makers and role players.  Do we seem like a team with enough difference makers that can use a scholarship on a guy with a ceiling of role player?  

 

BTW, isn't Miles the same guy who had 4 Nebraska kids on scholarship at Colorado St?  Is Alliance less out of the way than Ravenna?

[Dean Smith]

 

 

 

We need a shot clock in NE high school ball.

That certainly wouldn't be a bad place to start...

Because there is nothing better than bad basketball played faster?

 

 

Pace and lack of success are not one & the same.

 

I'm not talking about success. The better the player the faster you can play. The games seems slower to those who have a high skill level. There are very few D & C teams that are ready to speed up their game. And while I'm at it there are quite a few A & B as well. I saw a little bit of Aurora this year and they certainly are not ready to play any faster. I'm not talking about success. When two bad teams play one of them has to win. Players and teams with lower skill levels do not need to be pushed to play faster and I would say that would cover the majority of high school teams in the state at all levels.

[Creighton Fan]

Kids join AAU for exposure. If a kid aint playin on one team he gonna find another. That aint changing. Also kids here gotta play AAU because there aint enough good competition locally.

I aint buying the money excuse for shot clocks. I bet when the three pointer was first discussed schools be bitchin bout the cost of stripping floors and paintin the arc, yet it eventually got done.

I heard dat certain schools, mainly outside of omaha and lincoln dont want shotclocks because dey think it gonna hurt they chances. Dey dont have the athleticism of the two cities and want to play stall ball to have a chance.

Shot clock teaches kids to think faster and sharpens awareness and instincts. It also makes it more likely dat everyone has to teacb defense (ahem Central) because schools be trying to score sooner instead a holding the rock. When da ball aint movin, kids can git away with being lazy on d.

[Fromthebench]

Before you see a shot clock nationally, you will see high school move to 2 halves.  This will eliminate the stalling at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarters.  I'm not saying that this is the answer, just that it will probably happen.

[hhctony]

Central -- I agree with your take. I think people now think that everybody plays such good defense in high school. I say hogwash. I say, kids can't shoot and teams don't look to score as quick. I'll say this. In 1994, we played in the D-1 finals. We averaged over 70 points a game. We ran a secondary break on every possession modeled of off KU and Carolina. Our coach got made if we didn't get a shot out of the break. We rarely played offense in the half court, but we could. 

[Dean Smith]

 

 

Pair of portable shot clocks:  $2000

Pair of wireless portable shot clocks:  $2635

Not having to watch high school kids "hold for the last shot" for the last 2 minutes of every quarter:  Priceless.

 

 

http://www.gophersport.com/products/item_detail.cfm?item_id=2102&sku=11-972&vfsku=11.972&gpla=pla&gclid=CNSTvuWX-bwCFQ_l7AodIi8A1w

 

Don't forget you have to have somebody be the shot clock operator.  Some might volunteer to do so, but most of the time you have to pay that person too.  So that's an added cost.

 

Just have the guy who runs the possession arrow take care of the shot clock.  He's already sitting there getting paid.  You don't need a whole separate guy.

 

That guy is already running the clock and keeping score

[Norm Peterson]

Great thread.  Great discussion.  Few other boards would be capable of producing this kind of thread. 

 

Congrats, HHC, and my hat is off to all of you.

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

 

Pair of portable shot clocks:  $2000

Pair of wireless portable shot clocks:  $2635

Not having to watch high school kids "hold for the last shot" for the last 2 minutes of every quarter:  Priceless.

 

 

http://www.gophersport.com/products/item_detail.cfm?item_id=2102&sku=11-972&vfsku=11.972&gpla=pla&gclid=CNSTvuWX-bwCFQ_l7AodIi8A1w

 

Don't forget you have to have somebody be the shot clock operator.  Some might volunteer to do so, but most of the time you have to pay that person too.  So that's an added cost.

 

Just have the guy who runs the possession arrow take care of the shot clock.  He's already sitting there getting paid.  You don't need a whole separate guy.

 

That guy is already running the clock and keeping score

 

I realize that.  It was kind of tongue-in-cheek.  But they have people, certainly in any Class A school, who could put on a striped shirt and sit behind the scorer's table and handle the shot clock duties.  I remember the math teacher with the speech impediment who used to complain about getting stuck doing announcing duties for the football games. But, hey, it's part of his contract.  He has to do so many hours of extra-curricular what have you.  And that was a way fulfill his obligation. 

[atskooc]

Kids join AAU for exposure. If a kid aint playin on one team he gonna find another. That aint changing. Also kids here gotta play AAU because there aint enough good competition locally.

I aint buying the money excuse for shot clocks. I bet when the three pointer was first discussed schools be bitchin bout the cost of stripping floors and paintin the arc, yet it eventually got done.

I heard dat certain schools, mainly outside of omaha and lincoln dont want shotclocks because dey think it gonna hurt they chances. Dey dont have the athleticism of the two cities and want to play stall ball to have a chance.

Shot clock teaches kids to think faster and sharpens awareness and instincts. It also makes it more likely dat everyone has to teacb defense (ahem Central) because schools be trying to score sooner instead a holding the rock. When da ball aint movin, kids can git away with being lazy on d.

Some good stuff here, Central.  But I think the money issue is valid.  I work in a Kansas school district and I had to pull teeth in order to get 30 new copies of a novel I teach (whereas I used to order them 100 at a time).  Schools don't have the money they used to.  I'd be surprised if school districts would go for something like this (at least not right now).  They'd have to buy the units and have them installed (more money).

 

We got new scoreboards a couple years ago, but that was only because a bank paid for them (and put its name on them).  No room for sponsor names to go on shot clocks.

[AuroranHusker]

Why couldn't the shot clock have a sponsor to fund its installation?

This new equipment would require an extra individual to work the shot clock for games & practices, for that matter, and that effort may be too much for the smaller schools. Classes A & B should be in a position to invest in improving their sport, though.