We are at a crossroads

[GoBigRed]

This is an interesting topic. I honestly don't believe that the Carmelo comparison is entirely valid, because Carmelo is a multimillionaire pro athlete, and it's often extremely difficult for NBA coaches to reign in guys like that. Phil Jackson was in tremendous demand, and incredibly successful, in good part because he was the master of dealing with this type of athlete.

Terran Petteway is a college player who has no ability to subvert the coaching staff's whims over a sustained period of time. Eventually, he'll simply find his way out of the starting line-up, his minutes will decline, and this negative reinforcement would likely make him wake up. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Despite all of the negative comments about Petteway hurting this team (and I'm really not arguing this point), I'm surprised that there's not at least a little more excitement about his scoring potency, however unbridled it might be at this point in his development.

We watched a team last year that often had incredible difficulty putting the ball in the basket. Very rarely did scoring come easily for that group. Seeing guys like Petteway and Biggs, despite their failure thus far to play consistently within the scheme, has me a lot more excited than bummed out. It's a much more preferable problem to have a wild stallion that has to be "broken" than to have a plodding plough horse whose potential is at best mediocre.

We hear from guys like Petteway and Pitchford in interviews that there's total buy-in from the players. If that's true, then they need to demonstrate that through their actions and not just through their words.

Norm said it's too early to be highly critical of the coaching staff, and I happen to agree. That's not blind faith. It's based on what I saw last year with a staff that wasn't exactly playing with a wealth of resources, in either skill or depth. Despite this, I watched them beat a damned good Valpo team in the third game. I saw them hang tough with much more talented Wisconsin and OSU teams in Lincoln.

I watched them beat a more talented Iowa team, and a more talented Minnesota team that made the NCAAs. Then there was the Purdue win in the first round of the B1G tourney.

I felt last year that this coaching staff came pretty damned close to fulfilling the potential of that basketball team. I see no reason to believe they can't eventually do the same with this group. If we're still talking about this topic a month from now and seeing no tangible improvement in rectifying these issues, then let's talk. Until then, I have to believe that Miles and Co. are just as frustrated by these issues as we are, and that they have a plan to get them fixed.

Well said. My only concern is: what if what the players are buying into is this isolation type offense? With the rule changes, I definitely think Miles has emphasized the importance of getting to the free throw line. And the easiest way to do that is attack the rim. It's very possible Petteway may be doing mostly what the coaches want. The guy is an excellent free throw shooter...but he also misses wild shots for every time he gets fouled, shots that look dumb if you aren't fouled and look good if you are. Personally I have not seen him get yelled at or benched for anything other than foul trouble, so I am not even sure if he is doing anything wrong in the coaches' eyes.

[royalfan]

Damn Hooper.  That might be the best post I have ever seen on here.  I would give several bumps on the cred if I could.  For those that think I am a Petteway lover, Hooper summed up my thoughts.  I am excited by the potential he provides more than anything.  Too early to define him as anything yet.  Incredible post.  Lets get a W Sunday. 

[royalfan]

 

This is an interesting topic. I honestly don't believe that the Carmelo comparison is entirely valid, because Carmelo is a multimillionaire pro athlete, and it's often extremely difficult for NBA coaches to reign in guys like that. Phil Jackson was in tremendous demand, and incredibly successful, in good part because he was the master of dealing with this type of athlete.

Terran Petteway is a college player who has no ability to subvert the coaching staff's whims over a sustained period of time. Eventually, he'll simply find his way out of the starting line-up, his minutes will decline, and this negative reinforcement would likely make him wake up. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Despite all of the negative comments about Petteway hurting this team (and I'm really not arguing this point), I'm surprised that there's not at least a little more excitement about his scoring potency, however unbridled it might be at this point in his development.

We watched a team last year that often had incredible difficulty putting the ball in the basket. Very rarely did scoring come easily for that group. Seeing guys like Petteway and Biggs, despite their failure thus far to play consistently within the scheme, has me a lot more excited than bummed out. It's a much more preferable problem to have a wild stallion that has to be "broken" than to have a plodding plough horse whose potential is at best mediocre.

We hear from guys like Petteway and Pitchford in interviews that there's total buy-in from the players. If that's true, then they need to demonstrate that through their actions and not just through their words.

Norm said it's too early to be highly critical of the coaching staff, and I happen to agree. That's not blind faith. It's based on what I saw last year with a staff that wasn't exactly playing with a wealth of resources, in either skill or depth. Despite this, I watched them beat a damned good Valpo team in the third game. I saw them hang tough with much more talented Wisconsin and OSU teams in Lincoln.

I watched them beat a more talented Iowa team, and a more talented Minnesota team that made the NCAAs. Then there was the Purdue win in the first round of the B1G tourney.

I felt last year that this coaching staff came pretty damned close to fulfilling the potential of that basketball team. I see no reason to believe they can't eventually do the same with this group. If we're still talking about this topic a month from now and seeing no tangible improvement in rectifying these issues, then let's talk. Until then, I have to believe that Miles and Co. are just as frustrated by these issues as we are, and that they have a plan to get them fixed.

Well said. My only concern is: what if what the players are buying into is this isolation type offense? With the rule changes, I definitely think Miles has emphasized the importance of getting to the free throw line. And the easiest way to do that is attack the rim. It's very possible Petteway may be doing mostly what the coaches want. The guy is an excellent free throw shooter...but he also misses wild shots for every time he gets fouled, shots that look dumb if you aren't fouled and look good if you are. Personally I have not seen him get yelled at or benched for anything other than foul trouble, so I am not even sure if he is doing anything wrong in the coaches' eyes.

 

How many times did Petteway take a bad shot in your opinion?  I just didn't see it as much as most so obviously I am wrong. 

[jimmykc]

Dean: I think you should have used the fork analogy since a crossroad implies four possible directions including going back on the same road and starting over. After five games, it is way too early to know what this team will be like in March and who will ultimately regress or develop individually. Nevertheless, thanks for starting an interesting topic which provoked some strong opinions. After all, a message board without hyperbole is like a day without sunshine or a coach interview without cliche.

[cipsucks]

jimmy, at the end of the day, you always give 110% to your posts.  I've always said you're a work in progress, taking them one post at a time.

[jimmykc]

cip: you always bring your A game to the table and tell it like it is.

[Huskerpapa]

Petteway is a bit undisciplined.  Once this team gets used to each other and the team discipline "settles in" you will see greater maturity and better shot selection.  You have heard Coach Miles chirp about it, but if it was not something that couldn't be corrected, he and one or two others would not be on the floor.  We will be fine!

[hhcmatt]

 

I have seen the look on the Husker's faces the past two days on some of my own players in the past. In my case that look has always meant that we were about to take a giant lurch one way or the other. The team must decide who they are and whether they are going to pull together or pull apart. Are they going to continue to try to get everything on their own or will they start trusting each other. There have been times I've seen players take shots these past two games that I believe they really didn't want to but knew if they passed it they was no chance it was ever coming back.

 

Miles specifically said during the pre-game that he thought the shot selection on offense directly affected their defensive energy

[jnhucla]

Wow we are really early into a season & brand new team to start judging. We have a lot of individual talent, but that doesn't always mean you will have a good team. It's up to those big egos to play together as a team, and they could be a good ball team. Not sure some will change and that might be why they've been to a few schools already. Here's to them check the attitude and the door and playing some ball!! It all starts with the point guard and getting different people the ball. Give them some time

[nuled2dance]

For anyone who questions coach miles at all is an absolute joke. Guys he had to bring in some transfers or this year would have been terrible. Where would we be without these guys? We would have gone 0-3 on the year. If anyone here felt we should be an NCAA this year you are one of those guys tim Beck mentioned who never leaves the basement.

Guys we have an explosive scoring team that needs some defensive discipline. I truly feel that will come. Lets not be to high or to low with this team. Stay the course and just know we have a coach who is working his tail off to shut up every person who picked us last. This is one of the better teams we have has in my opinion and we look like a real basketball team. In the last decade we have run out guys who could barely walk, ex managers, 300+ pounders etc. If we had.a true big man we would really have a better shot at a special year but that will in the future.

Now this team has the ability to make this season special but we have no idea what we will do in the big ten. I do know that we can compete with anyone and I do not expect any ugly 30 point blow outs anymore with this team.

Enjoy this awesome arena we have and this passionate coach. Vent but remember we will lose games ...Louisville got beat today by unc who lost to Belmont. Pitino should just stop the season and move on;)

I'm excited for the rest of this year and the future. We have a coach who wants to be here and defense can be taught and those breakdowns fixed. You can't teach athleticism and explosiveness. We have both!

Most importantly enjoy your holiday guys and be thankful. Lost my grandmother last night and will be watching from gamecast this weekend!

[Huskerpapa]

Condolances and prayers are extended to you nuled. 

[nuled2dance]

Thanks get that win on Saturday and Wed vs Miami as we are making a week of it out east.

Get your tears to centurylinkas that should be a game no one misses!!!

[ballgame]

So did this tournament change our expectations or reinforce them?  I thought this was going to be a pretty rough non-con with all the new guys, but I think we can get it together by conference season and surprise a few folks along the way as we look to improve next season.

[Dean Smith]

Winning is nice and even though we scored fewer points i would rate the offense much higher in efficiency tonight. I counted five bad shots with Petteway taking two of them. After his first he went straight to the bench. No way to tell from my house if this was a scheduled rotation or a message being sent from Miles. I also thought this was by far Petteway's best all-around game. Tai looked so much more comfortable running the show and Pitchford actually made a post move.

 

Having said that, this doesn't mean everything is all sunshine in Huskerland. Young teams like this need a tight rein. Things can get away from you very quickly, but it looked to me after yesterday's practice and what they put together on the floor today as a team shows Miles has them taking a couple of steps (call 'em big steps if it makes you feel better) down the right direction at this fork in the road. (I'm putting the personal kibosh on my use of the term crossroads. It seems to get people worked up.)  

 

Many nights this year we will be playing teams that put more talent on the floor than we have this year. Posture and body language seemed way better tonight but I'm anxious to see how they respond the next time they get down 7 or so with a couple minutes left. Will they continue to work together or resort to forced shots. I go back to I think my first post this season. We shouldn't get too high or too low on this team. Predict a roller coaster ride - but should be fun as a fan. (roller coasters are not so much fun from the coach's perspective.) We are starting to see where this team can get to. Until its over, I'll be curious to see how close to "there" we get.

[nuled2dance]

Winning today will help them. An 0-3 weekend would be tough with a week off. Need to come out sharp this weekend leading into Miami and Creighton.

[The Coach]

UMass is not looking like a bad loss now.  They beat Top 25 New Mexico by 10 more points than they beat us, and if they hold on against Clemson, that will be the 4th major-conference team they have beaten already.

 

UAB is a bad loss, unless they can somehow beat UNC next Sunday.  

 

Cannot afford to go 0-3 against Miami, Creighton, and Cincinnati.  Need to steal at least one of those.  Miami will probably be the most winnable of the 3. 

[hhcmatt]

Having said that, this doesn't mean everything is all sunshine in Huskerland.

Yup, we just beat a slightly lesser version of our self in Georgia.

Hopefully the lesson taken home by the players is that when you play as a team you win and when you don't you lose. Miles wanted us to take some punches to the nose and we certainly did. It's going to make us a better team in the long run.

[hhcmatt]

UAB is a bad loss

I'd be surprised if UAB didn't make the NCAA tournament this year.

[AuroranHusker]

Having said that, this doesn't mean everything is all sunshine in Huskerland.

Yup, we just beat a slightly lesser version of our self in Georgia.Hopefully the lesson taken home by the players is that when you play as a team you win and when you don't you lose. Miles wanted us to take some punches to the nose and we certainly did. It's going to make us a better team in the long run.

Tough ballgames like UMASS & UAB will reinforce what Coach Miles must be teaching: trust your teammates. When NU does that, the O and D should continue to improve for this young squad.

[NUdiehard]

As reported by Lee B:

 

Coach Tim Miles called a meeting. His original plan was to blast his team for a putrid second-half performance in a loss to UAB in which the Huskers were scored on in 29 of 35 possessions.

Instead, Miles opened the floor. Leslee Smith — all 6-foot-8 and 250 pounds of him — stood up to talk. Four separate times.

And people listened.

“We had to get some things cleared up and out of the way,” said the junior forward from the British Virgin Islands. “I had a lot to say. I’ve been at a few other schools and been through meetings like this before.”

His ideas?

They weren’t complicated: pass the ball to the open man; help on defense when the ball gets into the lane; and stick to the game plan whether ahead or behind. 
 

“When teams do meetings like that, they usually have so much on their minds,” Smith said. “When you get that off your chest, you really come together.”

 

 

http://www.omaha.com/article/20131124/HUSKERS/131129235/1001#huskers-pull-away-late-in-win-over-georgia

[Norm Peterson]

CONFESSION TIME:  I didn't read this whole thread.  I listened to the games on the radio.  Took a few naps.  Cooked.  Made myself some adult beverages.  Ate.  Ate some more.  Cheered for the Huskers to beat Penn State.  Went to Mass.  And watched one of the most amazing Sunday Night Football games ever.  Whew, wore me out.  But I didn't get around to reading this whole thread.

 

And the reason I mention that I didn't read the whole thread is that I might repeat something that's already been said.  And, if so, sorry.  But let me make some points:

 

A.  There are chemistry issues on this team.  If you cannot see it for yourself, then read the tea leaves about things like when Tim Miles calls a team meeting and the players are getting things off their chests.

 

B.  Terran Petteway is a very talented player.  Possibly our best player.  But that doesn't mean he's perfect and above reproach.

 

C.  Nothing I've read (and maybe I just missed it) about Terran posted on this board has qualified as "venom" towards him in my opinion.

 

D.  To say that Terran calls his own number too much is not "venom" in my opinion.

 

E.  Terran Petteway calls his own number too much.

[Norm Peterson]

The other thing I wanted to say is for people who don't understand how it could be a problem when your most talented player calls his own number all the time, I gleaned this from the Agau thread:

 

 

meerkat68901, on 13 Nov 2013 - 9:16 PM, said:

A little off topic, but I was watching Indiana play last night and recognized a name, Troy Williams, from the Oak Hill team that lost to Omaha Central last year in GI. After some quick research, I found out that four members of that Oak Hill team started for high major programs over the weekend-Troy Williams-Indiana, Nate Britt-UNC, Ike Iroegbu-Washington State, and Sindarius Thornwell-South Carolina. First, that makes Central's win that much more impressive. Second, I felt like Agau was the best player on the court that night. Playing in front of the home crowd may have had something to do with it, but it surprises me that those Oak Hill guys are getting so much early time while Agau sits, albeit for a better team. Anybody else go that Heartland Hoops Classic last year?

Great Team ball often beats "all-stars" especially at that level Oak hill mostly just brings in senior transfers and the occasional junior or sophomore. Central players have been together for years whereas that team had for a couple months and are there to showcase their skills. Not taking away from central and their win but if those same kids had spent a few years together that game is a lot different.    

 

      

Having the most talent doesn't necessarily correspond with winning.  Playing as a team trumps individual talent, as the Oak Hill vs. Omaha Central experience from last year demonstrated.

 

I agree with Dean Smith about his observations.  I've said the same kinds of things.  I'm not predicting doom and gloom, nor am I saying Petteway is a bad guy who should be benched. 

 

Sometimes, Petteway settles in and plays team ball with great success.  But when he doesn't, I think it has a deleterious effect on the team on both ends of the floor.  And there are certainly signs that there are some chemistry problems on the team and I don't think they're complaining about Shavon Shields.

 

Trust me.  When one guy consistently goes "out of system" on the offensive end of the floor, it's going to disrupt cohesion on the defensive end of the floor as well.  That's why nipping this in the bud before it becomes a problem is so important. 

 

Remember, this is just nipping something in the bud.  This is not spewing venom.  It's identifying a potential issue and saying something probably needs to get corrected there.  And Dean's right, it does.

[Norm Peterson]

Petteway's the best player, scores the most points, yada yada.  Let's look at some numbers.

 

He's taken about 25% of the team's shots.  He has 24 more attempts (about 44% more) than the next most prolific shooter on the team.

 

However, of the 9 players in the regular rotation, only Benny Parker and Tai Webster have lower shooting percentages.  Six players have better shooting percentages from the floor than Petteway.

 

His assist to turnover ratio is better than only David Rivers and Leslee Smith.  Everyone else in the regular rotation has a better assist to turnover ratio.

 

I'm not arguing that he is or isn't the best player.  He might be our best player.  But let's not pretend that he's perfect and should take all the shots he wants irrespective of the structure of the offense.

[hhcmatt]

But let's not pretend that he's perfect and should take all the shots he wants irrespective of the structure of the offense.

 

I don't think anyone has nor will disagree with you here.

[tcp]

 

But let's not pretend that he's perfect and should take all the shots he wants irrespective of the structure of the offense.

 

I don't think anyone has nor will disagree with you here.

 

 

well, that's no fun. if you can't construct strawmen, what's to become of the straw market?