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"Slowest game in the world." Izzo, Dawkins call for a shorter shot clock. What do YOU think???


49r

Shot Clock  

82 members have voted

  1. 1. What should happen with the shot clock

    • Nothing. The 35 second clock is fine as it is.
      24
    • Change it to 30 seconds like the women's game.
      35
    • Adopt FIBA rules for the shot clock - 24 seconds
      5
    • Adopt NBA rules fot the shot clock - 24 seconds
      18


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I like the getting going when the time out is over and I think they shouldn't be allowed to talk to your team after a player fouls out.

 

At least the player gets to stay on the bench after they foul out. I follow another sport...where after the player is hit up with their 7th penalty they are automatically ejected from the game and required to leave the track.

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I like the getting going when the time out is over and I think they shouldn't be allowed to talk to your team after a player fouls out.

+1.  I've never understood why a team gets what amounts to a free time out when one of its players fouls out of a game.  It basically rewards the team that violated the rules.

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I like the getting going when the time out is over and I think they shouldn't be allowed to talk to your team after a player fouls out.

+1.  I've never understood why a team gets what amounts to a free time out when one of its players fouls out of a game.  It basically rewards the team that violated the rules.

 

 

"Violated the rules" for committing a 5th foul by a single player?!? That seems a bit harsh to categorize it that way (even if it is a technicality). But, on the point, I agree wholeheartedly that teams get what amounts to a 'free TO'; that 'free TO' also occurs when a formal review takes place near the end of ballgames.

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  • 3 weeks later...

...Division I men's basketball teams will play with a 30-second shot clock, a four-foot restricted-area arc and with four timeouts instead of five (with no more than three carrying over from the first to the second half)...

 

Full story:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/06/08/rules-changes-mens-basketball-shot-clock-timeouts/28697577/

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I do not think the shot clock rule change will add to increased scoring.

 

The only thing to allow that will be to change the way the game is called. 

 

Again, when the shot clock was at :45 seconds, teams were scoring more points than they are now.

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The best rule change is the reduction of timeouts.  I agree the 30 second shot clock won't have the much impact but only allowing each team to have 3 timeouts in the 2nd half is a very good change.  And love that it will count as media timeout as well if called within 30 seconds of it.  Well done rules committee.

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I just hope that they put an emphasis on less lousy officiating.  Yes some of the calls are legit...but they need to so something to the officiating crews to get it through their heads that the fans normally don't come to see them and their antics...they aren't the star of the show.. I also don't want to see a game that has 50+ fouls called.

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I just hope that they put an emphasis on less lousy officiating. Yes some of the calls are legit...but they need to so something to the officiating crews to get it through their heads that the fans normally don't come to see them and their antics...they aren't the star of the show.. I also don't want to see a game that has 50+ fouls called.

Do you want to watch a game where 100 fouls are committed but only 20 are called? Do you want to watch a game where the team that fouls more will have a better chance of winning because the refs are only supposed to blow the whistle 20 times to appease fans who think foul calls disrupt the flow of the game?

Because that is the current state of college basketball.

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No problem with either rule change. Now, make the defenders defend with their feet, not through hand checks, arm bars, body slams and the like; and all of a sudden, we will play the game of basketball once again :)

x 1000

All these rules are good, but they are just band aids. Reducing the relentless and excessive physicality of the game is the only thing that will clean up the game, increase scoring, increase freedom of movement and allow fans to truly appreciate the skill and beauty of elite basketball as it was meant to be

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The game was waaaay more physical in the 80's and the point totals were higher. It was just better fundamental basketball players playing on better teams. You can only do so much with the rules. As long as AAU ball is dominate you will not create as good of players and without as fundamentally  sound players you won't have as good of teams and therefore they're not as good at putting that ball in the ring thingy. 

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That AAU discussion we were having the other day in response to Miles' comments about AAU kids playing too many games and not practicing enough reminds me of another discussion I was having with a parent about select baseball.  It actually seems to be pretty pervasive in youth sports that the business model is to play a lotta lotta games and focus on the games rather than on the practices.  And the problem is that skill development has suffered.

 

As I understand it, Omaha high school baseball used to kick Lincoln's rear because they had select baseball up there first.  And Lincoln's response was to start developing some select teams to match Omaha in the youth sports arms race.  Since then, "select" teams have just proliferated.  Popped up all over the place.  And this has done a couple of things:  it has diluted the talent base of the kids, spreading the better players among more and more teams so that each squad has fewer truly "select" players; and it has diluted the quality of the coaching as well because you have to dig deeper into the bin to find enough coaches to coach all these teams that have come into existence.

 

And, instead of following the Wooden approach, they seem to have decided more games is better.  More tournaments; tournaments every weekend; gotta keep up with the Joneses.  Therefore you have 12-year-old kids playing 80 games in a summer.  And reinforcing bad habits, which subsequent coaches don't want to mess with.  You get the "it doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it goes in" philosophy that I've seen expressed about basketball technique.  And if a kid hits reasonably well even though he's swinging at crap at his eye level or, worse yet, if a pitcher can throw heat and keep it down no matter that he has horrible mechanics, well, you just reap what you've sown, right?  Because what worked in select ball isn't necessarily going to work as you get to the next level and the level after that.

 

So, I can see how AAU ball can harm a kid's development.  Especially when you hear Kamdy talking about how they don't even play defense until the last 5 minutes of the game.  Or you have some really highly ranked players who take off not just a play here or there or a minute here or there but basically check out an entire game.  And then, instead of looking at the dirty underbelly of what the problem really is (because a guy like Izzo has benefitted from that dirty underbelly), we start blaming an inanimate object like a shot clock.  That's the problem -- the shot clock.  Yeah.

 

Reminds me of when Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa were locked in a race to see if they could beat Roger Maris's home run record.  And serious sports journalists were writing serious news articles about whether baseballs were being made out of springier cork than in years past.  That the balls were somehow "juiced."  Yeah, it's the baseballs on juice.  Uh huh.  <_<   Yeah, let's blame the shot clock for why we have low scoring games.  The shot clock won't get offended.

bump - and to add to Norm's story line, a lot of those AAU coaches are salesmen and not real coaches. So even if those guys had practice more often I'm not sure that would be helpful.

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The game was waaaay more physical in the 80's and the point totals were higher. It was just better fundamental basketball players playing on better teams. You can only do so much with the rules. As long as AAU ball is dominate you will not create as good of players and without as fundamentally  sound players you won't have as good of teams and therefore they're not as good at putting that ball in the ring thingy. 

 

Completely disagree that the game was waaay more physical in the 80s.  I would compare some old 80s film and see if screens were set like they are today; I believe they were not (and for those who think the NBA has gone all soft on physicality, review some of the screening from last night's game).   I do agree with Dean's comments on AAU ball and fundamentals, but believe that the body type of players is way different than it was in the 80s and the game is more physical now.  

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The game was waaaay more physical in the 80's and the point totals were higher. It was just better fundamental basketball players playing on better teams. You can only do so much with the rules. As long as AAU ball is dominate you will not create as good of players and without as fundamentally  sound players you won't have as good of teams and therefore they're not as good at putting that ball in the ring thingy. 

 

Completely disagree that the game was waaay more physical in the 80s.  I would compare some old 80s film and see if screens were set like they are today; I believe they were not (and for those who think the NBA has gone all soft on physicality, review some of the screening from last night's game).   I do agree with Dean's comments on AAU ball and fundamentals, but believe that the body type of players is way different than it was in the 80s and the game is more physical now.  

 

I'm not so sure about picks. People don't know how to set picks. I heard Hubie Brown talk for over an hour on how to set, set up, receive and follow through on picks. He took a bad Grizzlies team and made them competitive just because he had the team doing all of the little things just that much better than their opponents.  Through out most of the time period I'm discussing the hand check was legal. Huge advantage to the D. Love watching Curry play today. Now let's have Michael Ray Richardson hand check him and see how much freedom of movement he would have had in the 80's. While you're watching the film from the 80's looking at screens, see what happens when someone penetrated to the hoop - make sure you're watching play off basketball. The common hard foul to the hoop then is a flagrant 2 today. You had the Bruise Brothers in San Antonio and McFilthy and McNasty in Detroit before the Bad Boys. And there was a lot more to the Jordan Rules than hack him when he drives but let the two  switch places and see how LeBron would like the James Rules from the Pistons.

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That AAU discussion we were having the other day in response to Miles' comments about AAU kids playing too many games and not practicing enough reminds me of another discussion I was having with a parent about select baseball.  It actually seems to be pretty pervasive in youth sports that the business model is to play a lotta lotta games and focus on the games rather than on the practices.  And the problem is that skill development has suffered.

 

As I understand it, Omaha high school baseball used to kick Lincoln's rear because they had select baseball up there first.  And Lincoln's response was to start developing some select teams to match Omaha in the youth sports arms race.  Since then, "select" teams have just proliferated.  Popped up all over the place.  And this has done a couple of things:  it has diluted the talent base of the kids, spreading the better players among more and more teams so that each squad has fewer truly "select" players; and it has diluted the quality of the coaching as well because you have to dig deeper into the bin to find enough coaches to coach all these teams that have come into existence.

 

And, instead of following the Wooden approach, they seem to have decided more games is better.  More tournaments; tournaments every weekend; gotta keep up with the Joneses.  Therefore you have 12-year-old kids playing 80 games in a summer.  And reinforcing bad habits, which subsequent coaches don't want to mess with.  You get the "it doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it goes in" philosophy that I've seen expressed about basketball technique.  And if a kid hits reasonably well even though he's swinging at crap at his eye level or, worse yet, if a pitcher can throw heat and keep it down no matter that he has horrible mechanics, well, you just reap what you've sown, right?  Because what worked in select ball isn't necessarily going to work as you get to the next level and the level after that.

 

So, I can see how AAU ball can harm a kid's development.  Especially when you hear Kamdy talking about how they don't even play defense until the last 5 minutes of the game.  Or you have some really highly ranked players who take off not just a play here or there or a minute here or there but basically check out an entire game.  And then, instead of looking at the dirty underbelly of what the problem really is (because a guy like Izzo has benefitted from that dirty underbelly), we start blaming an inanimate object like a shot clock.  That's the problem -- the shot clock.  Yeah.

 

Reminds me of when Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa were locked in a race to see if they could beat Roger Maris's home run record.  And serious sports journalists were writing serious news articles about whether baseballs were being made out of springier cork than in years past.  That the balls were somehow "juiced."  Yeah, it's the baseballs on juice.  Uh huh.  <_<   Yeah, let's blame the shot clock for why we have low scoring games.  The shot clock won't get offended.

bump - and to add to Norm's story line, a lot of those AAU coaches are salesmen and not real coaches. So even if those guys had practice more often I'm not sure that would be helpful.

 

How can I not up arrow you for quoting a post of mine from two years ago?  Did I really write that?  Seems more insightful than usual for me.  And better written.  You sure that was me?

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The game was waaaay more physical in the 80's and the point totals were higher. It was just better fundamental basketball players playing on better teams. You can only do so much with the rules. As long as AAU ball is dominate you will not create as good of players and without as fundamentally  sound players you won't have as good of teams and therefore they're not as good at putting that ball in the ring thingy. 

These may be small contributors to the problem, but not the primary reasons. 

 

1.  It has been proven over time that the more athletic type player is more valuable.  Often times they aren't the best shooters or the best at fundamentals.  But they can shut down the less athletic players.  This is why so many people have the absurd argument that the NBA had way better play many moons ago.  Simply an incredibly idiotic take. 

 

2.  Coaching is better than ever.  There is more money in it than ever before.  More coaches take it more seriously than ever before.  Large incentives for assistant coaches to strive to excel than ever before.  Quite simply the defensive schemes and rotations are better than ever before.  The advanced scouting is better than ever before.  People know who they do not want to get open looks more than ever before.  This is a huge reason why scoring is down. 

 

3.  The players have gotten bigger and more athletic, yet the rules have stayed the same for the most part.  There needs to be rules that create more space.  Like the NBA defensive 3 seconds as an example(not saying I necessarily think that rule should go into play).  Wider lane also could help. 

 

4.  Three point line too close.  It is impacting the game negatively in many ways IMO.  Too many guys can shoot that shot.  And therefore too many guys work way too hard on that shot.  It is impacting the mid range shot in a very negative way, and possibly free throws as well.   It is also clogging things up.  If you extend it a bit you will create more driving lanes and also possibly change the importance of the elite athlete slightly, to a more skilled shooting player. 

 

Some of these reasons can be fixed.  And some don't need fixing.  The fact that defensive rotations and game plans are so good is not a bad thing.  I enjoy watching great defense being played.  This may be because I tend to identify under situations better in my career than making over plays.  I think may eye has been trained to watch and appreciate great scheming on that end. 

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