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Hate Will Never Win

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I'm all about free speech, even when I disagree with the words being spoken.  However........the  racist white nationalist kid basically issues a threat in his video.  He essentially says that it's not so much a matter of if he will do something violent, but when (paraphrasing here).  So how is that protected speech?  Wouldn't that fall under the same category as yelling "fire" in a theater?

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Sorry, should have given context to my last post.  I was saying that largely in response to Chancellor Green's statement that the University can't do anything about the kid because it's a freedom of speech issue.  

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If you're not sure what's going on here, there is a white supremacist student on campus who took part in that crap in Virginia this summer among other things.

If you follow the team on social media, you know how the feel about this as after beating Minnesota guys were tweeting about this issue.

 

Miles was present at a rally on Tuesday.

 

 

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/unl-students-rally-against-white-nationalist-classmate/article_d8afb5c1-121b-53c8-8272-08e1768f8dfc.html

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11 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

Sorry, should have given context to my last post.  I was saying that largely in response to Chancellor Green's statement that the University can't do anything about the kid because it's a freedom of speech issue.  

I will not use his name but ,in reference to the University of Nebraska student causing all of this controversy... The problem with freedom of speech, which I agree is important, is that is gives people freedom to be complete hate-filled jackasses! I would include this alt-right jackass in that category! People like this alt-right jackass make our university and our state look bad and I hope our team and everyone in the state and the country know that most of us do not agree or condone this alt-right jackass or his comments and actions.  

Edited by BigTate

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11 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

If you're not sure what's going on here, there is a white supremacist student on campus who took part in that crap in Virginia this summer among other things.

If you follow the team on social media, you know how the feel about this as after beating Minnesota guys were tweeting about this issue.

 

Miles was present at a rally on Tuesday.

 

 

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/unl-students-rally-against-white-nationalist-classmate/article_d8afb5c1-121b-53c8-8272-08e1768f8dfc.html

Didn't know he was that tall

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1 hour ago, BigTate said:

I will not use his name but ,in reference to the University of Nebraska student causing all of this controversy... The problem with freedom of speech, which I agree is important, is that is gives people freedom to be complete hate-filled jackasses! I would include this alt-right jackass in that category! People like this alt-right jackass make our university and our state look bad and I hope our team and everyone in the state and the country know that most of us do not agree or condone this alt-right jackass or his comments and actions.  

 

There are limits to freedom of speech. 

 

Pornography, while something I personally disagree with, is recognized as perfectly legal "free speech."  Child pornography is not.  You will have a very difficult time finding someone who thinks child pornography should be legal, which just goes to show that (almost) no one believes that the First Amendment applies to all circumstances.

 

I find this specific quote from the Supreme Court's ruling in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire to be applicable in our current situation:

"There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting" words those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality."

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12 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

I'm all about free speech, even when I disagree with the words being spoken.  However........the  racist white nationalist kid basically issues a threat in his video.  He essentially says that it's not so much a matter of if he will do something violent, but when (paraphrasing here).  So how is that protected speech?  Wouldn't that fall under the same category as yelling "fire" in a theater?

 

If a video falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to watch it, does it really constitute a "threat"?

 

Quit giving this guy attention he doesn't deserve. (Not just you, but everybody.)

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10 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

If a video falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to watch it, does it really constitute a "threat"?

 

Quit giving this guy attention he doesn't deserve. (Not just you, but everybody.)

 

Yes, it still constitutes a threat.  A crazy person who plans to inflict violence on people based on their skin tone is a threat, even if no one sees his video.

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17 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

If a video falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to watch it, does it really constitute a "threat"?

 

Quit giving this guy attention he doesn't deserve. (Not just you, but everybody.)

 

I know the whole "if you ignore it, it'll go away" strategy is useful in certain circumstances. But if a group of people actually feels like their safety is threatened, should it really be ignored?

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8 minutes ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

 

I know the whole "if you ignore it, it'll go away" strategy is useful in certain circumstances. But if a group of people actually feels like their safety is threatened, should it really be ignored?

 

I don't know.  Is there a reasonable belief that their safety is actually threatened?

 

As to the "ignore it" strategy, NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS GUY if people would have just ignored him.  He would have died an anonymous, unknown loser.  He wasn't publicizing his idiotic views.  Someone else did that.

Edited by Norm Peterson

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3 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

As to the "ignore it" strategy, NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS GUY

 

 

 

Quote

“People have classes with him, people have been frustrated, he’s open with his thoughts about people of color, or as he calls it, white genocide,” she said. “The teachers allow it and it makes students of color very uncomfortable.”

 

Quote

Kleve has publicly identified himself as a white nationalist before the Lincoln City Council when he testified in opposition to a resolution celebrating diversity and taking a stand against hate and intolerance last September.

 

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/unl-acknowledges-concerns-about-white-supremacist-student/article_c88a282c-bdb0-50e3-82c2-bc21bf86e6e2.html

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I commend the University for the position they took.  The easiest thing in the world would be to censor and expel this individual for the ideological hatred he spews (caveat - expulsion should be considered for the violent threats).  However, what would this solve?  Now that the guy has had his 15 minutes of fame, silencing him would bring out the lunatic fringe from all over the country to descend on Lincoln, Nebraska as we've seen play out in other parts of the country.  Sometimes you can't just put your head in the sand and ignore these types, especially when they are now front and center on your own campus.  The best way to counteract these types of people is through dialogue, education, and peaceful counter demonstrations. Then, let this person graduate or go on his way and continue leading a miserable life.  Huge kudos to the basketball team for making a united, peaceful front!

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The team apparently considered but voted against boycotting the game on Saturday (http://www.omaha.com/news/plus/husker-basketball-team-considered-boycott-over-white-nationalist-on/article_c00f5555-c804-55bf-9cba-494e4d0cbfdd.html).

 

I'm very proud of this team, and their willingness to even consider boycotting a game and hurting their NCAA chances, for the sake of a more just and equitable society. I am glad that they ultimately decided to play the game, not only because of my desire to see them make the tournament, but also because I do think that it would have given the white supremacist a huge amount of power if they would have cancelled a basketball game because of him. Better to use their position of power to speak about justice and to help enact positive change through the video they plan.

 

I honestly think that it bodes really well for their ability to succeed the remainder of this season--they have their priorities in order and so can take a step back and approach each game with a more calm mindset.  And, more importantly (though it's a perspective from which I don't often consider Nebrasketball), it bodes well for these players to succeed in life. Good on them and good on coach Miles and staff.

 

Hate will never win.

Edited by runsoastowin

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I don't want my "ignore him" take to be construed as some sort of tacit support for the idiot white nationalist dude.  I don't support his views; I condemn them in the strongest of terms.  But that doesn't mean that the right response is to draw attention to this guy.

 

But this isn't my first rodeo.

 

This isn't the first neo-Nazi turd to walk around Lincoln, Nebraska.  He's the second, actually.

 

The first was a guy who graduated from Lincoln East in the early 70s.  His name was Gary Lauck.  Lincoln became described by some as sort of the neo-Nazi capitol of North America because, supposedly, this guy was mailing off more neo-Nazi literature from Lincoln than was coming out of any other place in the US.  My high school teachers would mention this Gary Lauck; my professors at college would sometimes bring him up.

 

But no one organized marches or cry-ins or kumbaya sessions because of him.  If we thought of him at all, it was with ridicule because THE GUY WAS AND STILL IS A LOSER.

 

As a result, he's now a little-known, largely ignored pimple on the butt of humanity.  I question whether there's anyone on this board younger than 40 who's even heard of him before reading this post just now.

 

So, my question is why give this current douche attention?  The attention gives him a sort of power that he doesn't rightly possess and only experiences by virtue of the reaction people are giving to him.  Why give that to him?  Why make him think his message is reaching its mark?  

 

He's not capable of inflicting any actual harm; he only has the power you give him and you can choose not to give that to him by ignoring him, which is what I would do.

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2 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

I don't want my "ignore him" take to be construed as some sort of tacit support for the idiot white nationalist dude.  I don't support his views; I condemn them in the strongest of terms.  But that doesn't mean that the right response is to draw attention to this guy.

 

But this isn't my first rodeo.

 

This isn't the first neo-Nazi turd to walk around Lincoln, Nebraska.  He's the second, actually.

 

The first was a guy who graduated from Lincoln East in the early 70s.  His name was Gary Lauck.  Lincoln became described by some as sort of the neo-Nazi capitol of North America because, supposedly, this guy was mailing off more neo-Nazi literature from Lincoln than was coming out of any other place in the US.  My high school teachers would mention this Gary Lauck; my professors at college would sometimes bring him up.

 

But no one organized marches or cry-ins or kumbaya sessions because of him.  If we thought of him at all, it was with ridicule because THE GUY WAS AND STILL IS A LOSER.

 

As a result, he's now a little-known, largely ignored pimple on the butt of humanity.  I question whether there's anyone on this board younger than 40 who's even heard of him before reading this post just now.

 

So, my question is why give this current douche attention?  The attention gives him a sort of power that he doesn't rightly possess and only experiences by virtue of the reaction people are giving to him.  Why give that to him?  Why make him think his message is reaching its mark?  

 

He's not capable of inflicting any actual harm; he only has the power you give him and you can choose not to give that to him by ignoring him, which is what I would do.

 

How'd ignoring this white supremacist work out?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/index.html 

 

We no longer live in a time when you can treat a kid with that ideology as just a loser.

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