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big red22

Time to eat a little crow

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I'll admit that I haven't been a serious Husker hoops fan for a long time relative to most here. I barely even paid attention during the Collier and Sadler eras, but was determined to be all in on Husker hoops from the day Miles was hired.

 

The long-term Husker hoops fans undoubtedly have more perspective than I do. However, I feel that long-term perspective can also cause some fans to be more accepting of poor achievement or results as a consequence of having endured so much of it previously. It's important not to succumb to the battered wife syndrome. "Coach [insert name] isn't that bad. Yeah, he beats me, but at least he doesn't put his cigarettes out on my arm like coach Collier did."

 

I'm an advocate for heightened expectations. Nebraska basketball's history under Collier and Sadler is not the reference standard I ever want applied to this program. Times have changed and I feel that Nebraska fans should expect to see a good product on the court and not use those previous eras of futility as a point of reference for the present-day program. 

 

Anyway, I just came here to eat crow because Tim has done a very commendable job of turning the program around from where it was at the end of last season, and I'm rooting for him.

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16 minutes ago, Hooper said:

I'll admit that I haven't been a serious Husker hoops fan for a long time relative to most here. I barely even paid attention during the Collier and Sadler eras, but was determined to be all in on Husker hoops from the day Miles was hired.

 

The long-term Husker hoops fans undoubtedly have more perspective than I do. However, I feel that long-term perspective can also cause some fans to be more accepting of poor achievement or results as a consequence of having endured so much of it previously. It's important not to succumb to the battered wife syndrome. "Coach [insert name] isn't that bad. Yeah, he beats me, but at least he doesn't put his cigarettes out on my arm like coach Collier did."

 

I'm an advocate for heightened expectations. Nebraska basketball's history under Collier and Sadler is not the reference standard I ever want applied to this program. Times have changed and I feel that Nebraska fans should expect to see a good product on the court and not use those previous eras of futility as a point of reference for the present-day program. 

 

Anyway, I just came here to eat crow because Tim has done a very commendable job of turning the program around from where it was at the end of last season, and I'm rooting for him.

 

Agree with this. Miles has proven that he can land high-end transfer talent. If we want to be known as Transfer U, I guess that's fine as long as it's producing March Madness berths. But I'm wondering how often the Petteways, Palmers, and Copelands really come around. And when they don't, we've seen what these Miles teams are like with just his HS recruits. I love Glynn and Roby, but if they were options 1 and 2 this year we'd be bad again.

 

It's a down year in the Big Ten and we're contending for 4th place and are currently on the outside looking in for the dance. That shouldn't be the bar we set for this program. Barring a major collapse, Miles has clearly earned himself another year because of the in-season improvement. And they could be really dangerous next year if Palmer and Copeland stay. But I'm certainly not sold on him being our coach of the future. This program can really do great things with our facilities and fan support. The media is astounded at our home court advantage every time they visit. Imagine if we were actually a Final Four contender. I don't think we should hitch our wagon to Tim Miles just because he's doing things that the last two coaches couldn't.

Edited by Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty

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12 minutes ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

Agree with this. Miles has proven that he can land high-end transfer talent. If we want to be known as Transfer U, I guess that's fine as long as it's producing March Madness berths. But I'm wondering how often the Petteways, Palmers, and Copelands really come around. And when they don't, we've seen what these Miles teams are like with just his HS recruits. I love Glynn and Roby, but if they were options 1 and 2 this year we'd be bad again.


I don't think the whole "Transfer U" label is all that fair.  That's the way of the world now in college basketball.   Below is a list of the number of transfers by year since 2012 and this comes from www.verbalcommits.com:

 

2012 - 572

2013 - 672

2014 - 753

2015 - 829

2016 - 801

2017 - 882

 

Over the course of 6 years, transfers are up 54% across college basketball.  With the volume of transfers, I give Miles a ton of credit for being able to pick out the Petteway's, Pitchford's, Palmer's and Copeland's.  I think it shows that Nebraska does their homework on the transfer market.  I agree wholeheartedly that traditional recruiting needs to keep pace to keep success sustainable as we've seen there are no guarantees these transfers stick around more than a year (cough, cough AFW III - you can guess the F).  And, to this point, Miles deserves recent credit for the likes of Watson, Roby, and Allen, and Jordy (hopefully he sticks around).  And, I'm also very high on Xavier Johnson being an impact player.  So, I think Miles has done a very good job constructing the current roster and have faith in him going forward.  Knowing that roster attrition is inevitable in just about every program, would we be better off this year with Morrow, Jacobson, and Horne or Palmer and Copeland?  I think that is pretty easy but I do realize this doesn't have to be an either/or type of question.  However, that's just the direction college basketball has been heading for a long time.  Given the way of the world with transfers and Miles knack for pulling out quality kids off the transfer market, I'll roll the dice with Tim and the fact that he can manage the inevitable roster attrition when it strikes.

 

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23 hours ago, PimpMario said:

I hear ya, but I heard the reasons for doc and Collier too.

 

There weren't many reasons for Collier. Not among hard-core Husker fans. They didn't like him. 

 

 

Edited by swmckewon

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For those who want to see miles gone I’d be interested to see who you think should replace him? I’m in the you either extend him 3-4 years or you fire him boat but the dudes trending up 20+ wins and 10+ wins conference wins( I don’t wanna hear the BIG is down you play whoever’s on the schedule) and ya his real good players have been transfers but he developed guys like Webster n shields and looks to have a solid base next year of Watson, Allen, roby,  nana, Xavier hopefully Jordy and I wouldn’t just bank on cope n palmer leaving

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15 minutes ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

For those who want to see miles gone I’d be interested to see who you think should replace him? I’m in the you either extend him 3-4 years or you fire him boat but the dudes trending up 20+ wins and 10+ wins conference wins( I don’t wanna hear the BIG is down you play whoever’s on the schedule) and ya his real good players have been transfers but he developed guys like Webster n shields and looks to have a solid base next year of Watson, Allen, roby,  nana, Xavier hopefully Jordy and I wouldn’t just bank on cope n palmer leaving

 

I think the majority of people are in this boat.  We have to make a decision THIS year.  What direction do we want to go.  We have sat on the fence long enough.

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Miles is far from perfect.  But to his and the staffs credit they have been coaching pretty well of late for the most part.  Better than I would have guessed by a decent margin.  They have really picked it up since very early in the season.  I wish more of our players got better due to great coaching development.  That, and a late game "it factor" that cannot really be taught, are the biggest concerns I have.  Not sure we could do much better, without really spending a lot, or getting a fair bit lucky on a hire.  

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31 minutes ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

For those who want to see miles gone I’d be interested to see who you think should replace him? I’m in the you either extend him 3-4 years or you fire him boat but the dudes trending up 20+ wins and 10+ wins conference wins( I don’t wanna hear the BIG is down you play whoever’s on the schedule) and ya his real good players have been transfers but he developed guys like Webster n shields and looks to have a solid base next year of Watson, Allen, roby,  nana, Xavier hopefully Jordy and I wouldn’t just bank on cope n palmer leaving

 

I'm on board for now. Just saying I'm still very skeptical of him and that we shouldn't consider him successful for building a bubble team in Year Six. I love the potential this team has to close out the season and for next year, and for that reason I think you need to have him under contract for four years for recruiting purposes. If it turns out we tank next year or the year after, I can deal with riding his contract out and having some more crappy Nebrasketball seasons given the current state of excitement in Memorial Stadium.

Edited by Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty

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1 hour ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

 

I'm on board for now. Just saying I'm still very skeptical of him and that we shouldn't consider him successful for building a bubble team in Year Six. I love the potential this team has to close out the season and for next year, and for that reason I think you need to have him under contract for four years for recruiting purposes. If it turns out we tank next year or the year after, I can deal with riding his contract out and having some more crappy Nebrasketball seasons given the current state of excitement in Memorial Stadium.

 

What if they get to the front of the bubble in year 6 and win a game in the dance?  What do you do then?

 

Is there anyone who says that's not within the realm of realistic possibility?

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8 hours ago, royalfan said:

Miles is far from perfect.  But to his and the staffs credit they have been coaching pretty well of late for the most part.  Better than I would have guessed by a decent margin.  They have really picked it up since very early in the season.  I wish more of our players got better due to great coaching development.  That, and a late game "it factor" that cannot really be taught, are the biggest concerns I have.  Not sure we could do much better, without really spending a lot, or getting a fair bit lucky on a hire.  

 

How much more time and resources lately have we been spending on game prep and coaching vs recruiting? Maybe it's the same as it usual

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11 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

What if they get to the front of the bubble in year 6 and win a game in the dance?  What do you do then?

 

Is there anyone who says that's not within the realm of realistic possibility?

 

It's absolutely in the realm of possibility. I really like our odds of winning a game if we can manage to get in.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask what I would do. I've already said I'm in favor of making sure his contract is four years for recruiting purposes. Winning a game in the tournament wouldn't change that for me. If he makes a run to the Sweet 16 I could get behind a longer extension. But until he starts recruiting the HS ranks at a higher level I'm going to remain skeptical. Maybe he can continue to attract transfers, but it seems like a second rate formula for building a consistent program.

 

I will say I'm excited to see if Xavier Johnson is the real deal. Seems like he should be rated higher than he is. Otherwise, the 2016-2018 classes have been a bit of a disappointment with all of them falling outside the top 50.

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4 hours ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

Barring a major collapse, Miles has clearly earned himself another year because of the in-season improvement.

 

As @hhcdimes has mentioned before, I don't think this is an "earned another year" situation. It's likely a "3 year or gone" sort of situation that Moos has to decide.

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Just now, HuskerFever said:

 

As @hhcdimes has mentioned before, I don't think this is an "earned another year" situation. It's likely a "3 year or gone" sort of situation that Moos has to decide.

 

Are you saying you think there's a chance he's fired after this year? Because unless we miss the NIT, that's not going to happen. There's way too much potential for next season to blow this up now. For a program who's #1 goal is to win its first NCAA tournament game, we wouldn't throw that opportunity away by canning Miles and breaking up this team.

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4 minutes ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

 

Are you saying you think there's a chance he's fired after this year? Because unless we miss the NIT, that's not going to happen. There's way too much potential for next season to blow this up now. For a program who's #1 goal is to win its first NCAA tournament game, we wouldn't throw that opportunity away by canning Miles and breaking up this team.

 

I think the best way to look at this is like the Selection Committee is supposed to look at at-large  teams.  It's the whole body of work, not just the last whatever games.  The 6 years of Miles, as a whole,  hasn't been very good.  Making the NIT this year, unless a 23 win NU team doesn't make the Tourney, doesn't necessarily get a contract extension. Also, making a coaching change doesn't automatically mean you're breaking up this team.  A lot depends on the next hire.  NU football is living proof.

 

On the other hand, going on a hot streak at the end of the season, never hurts.  It will all play out fine.  I'm a little surprised, and disappointed talk of the future even comes up when NU is playing so well in the present.  GBR!

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1 hour ago, cipsucks said:

 

I think the best way to look at this is like the Selection Committee is supposed to look at at-large  teams.  It's the whole body of work, not just the last whatever games.  The 6 years of Miles, as a whole,  hasn't been very good.  Making the NIT this year, unless a 23 win NU team doesn't make the Tourney, doesn't necessarily get a contract extension. Also, making a coaching change doesn't automatically mean you're breaking up this team.  A lot depends on the next hire.  NU football is living proof.

 

On the other hand, going on a hot streak at the end of the season, never hurts.  It will all play out fine.  I'm a little surprised, and disappointed talk of the future even comes up when NU is playing so well in the present.  GBR!

 

Nobody would be happy with the results if we miss the tourney this year. Before the season I would have said tourney or bust for Miles. But now that it’s playing out, this might be the only scenario where the NIT might be enough to keep him. We clearly look like a tourney team, but may have just turned on the switch too late. With next year’s potential it’d be crazy to fire him.

 

Our top two players are already threats to leave if Miles is still here. I’d be shocked if they’d stay if they had to get acquainted with a new staff and learn a new system at their ages. I bet they’re ready to cash some paychecks whether it’s here or overseas.

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It's Moos' first year with the program, so that's the wildcard. But President Green and Moos make it pretty clear that the standard they're looking for competitiveness across all athletic programs that have a shot to make postseason play every couple of years. If Miles doesn't make the dance this year, Moos is looking at a coach who has made it once in six years. We'll see where his head is at in the offseason.

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Ive always defended Miles and said he has had some bad breaks and been extremely unlucky (not sure if its him or the Nebrasketball curse). This year the breaks seem to be going his way and luck on his side.

 

We'll make the tournament with a solid chance to win a game. Do that and there is no way hes fired.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

 

Are you saying you think there's a chance he's fired after this year? Because unless we miss the NIT, that's not going to happen. There's way too much potential for next season to blow this up now. For a program who's #1 goal is to win its first NCAA tournament game, we wouldn't throw that opportunity away by canning Miles and breaking up this team.

 

The issue is that Miles is in a much better position to move after this year. If the AD is just going to extend him a year at a time until he has another bad year, why not move on when your demand is back up? If you're an assistant here are you waiting around for that to happen?

 

If he's not the guy then having him grab a different job is a cost effective way to get rid of him....but it sort of points towards us not actually having anyone lined up

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6 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

The issue is that Miles is in a much better position to move after this year. If the AD is just going to extend him a year at a time until he has another bad year, why not move on when your demand is back up? If you're an assistant here are you waiting around for that to happen?

 

If he's not the guy then having him grab a different job is a cost effective way to get rid of him....but it sort of points towards us not actually having anyone lined up

 

It's a tough call.  The body of work clearly is unacceptable.  He hasn't shown that he can consistently win in the conference, in post season, or against our main rival.  That's gotta change.  All of that being said, for the first time in forever it seems, I've seen his fingerprints on an improving team.  I can't say that since the year we got hot and made the dance.  If we make the dance, the only way I see him getting fired is if we can get our hands on something better, i.e. Hoiberg or Altman.  If either of those two are a real possibility, we should absolutely make the move and get the long-term solution in here.  Unfortunately, Miles hasn't proven that he's really learned how to win here and beat the teams we need him to beat.

Edited by ATupe

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7 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

The issue is that Miles is in a much better position to move after this year. If the AD is just going to extend him a year at a time until he has another bad year, why not move on when your demand is back up? If you're an assistant here are you waiting around for that to happen?

 

If he's not the guy then having him grab a different job is a cost effective way to get rid of him....but it sort of points towards us not actually having anyone lined up

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Big Ten is in a weird spot of coaching transitions right now. Should it be decided that this program needs to move in a new direction, making changes now lessens the chances that we're stuck in 10-14 conference territory later on because all of these new coaches have started to find their footing and established their programs. If it's decided that Miles is our guy, then we also have a chance to build on this year and stay ahead of these Big Ten programs in transition.

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7 hours ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

Aren’t we already in the NIT? Like say sh!t goes south n we finish like 2-4 I think we gotta be in the NIT already 

No. 2-4 would give us an RPI in the 90s. Not an NIT bid. Lots of NIT bids get eaten up by the regular-season champions of smaller conferences that fail to get their automatic bid.

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57 minutes ago, HuskerActuary said:

No. 2-4 would give us an RPI in the 90s. Not an NIT bid. Lots of NIT bids get eaten up by the regular-season champions of smaller conferences that fail to get their automatic bid.

 

Yep. We’re probably considered anywhere between a two and a four seed right now in the NIT. A bad finish would drop us out because the 6-8 seeds are typically taken by automatic qualifiers.

Edited by Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty

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2 hours ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Big Ten is in a weird spot of coaching transitions right now. Should it be decided that this program needs to move in a new direction, making changes now lessens the chances that we're stuck in 10-14 conference territory later on because all of these new coaches have started to find their footing and established their programs. If it's decided that Miles is our guy, then we also have a chance to build on this year and stay ahead of these Big Ten programs in transition.

Also weird that Wisky, Iowa and Minnesota are all stuck in the mud right now with coaches who are staying. Really is a strange year. I'd equate Miles' situation with Pat Chambers'. How much progress does he need to show and how much do you want to keep the current players together next year? It's not an easy answer.

Edited by Chuck Taylor

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