Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ajb5856

Going forward

Recommended Posts

I'll put this here since there seems to be a lot of lineup/strategy talk lost in other/multiple threads.

 

This is simple. Going forward, if Miles forces opponents to react to us, to our strengths, we will win a lot more games.

 

We have too many weapons to sit back and not play to our strengths.  Too many weapons to sit back and let other teams do their thing. Let's do our thing. Come on Miles, lets do what Frost suggested. That is, make the rest of the big ten react to us. Or whatever he said. So, like the last 10 minutes last night...let's do that for 40 minutes and really jump out on and stomp opponents' throats.

 

Lets get the most mismatches out on the court and get out and run. That's when we're best.

 

1-Watson

2-Taylor

3-Palmer

4-Copeland

5-Roby

Filter in Allen and Gill at the guards. Give Borchardt and Duby a few minutes to spell Roby/Copeland. Jordy, use him in emergencies only. Sorry, take a seat for awhile.

 

Heard it mentioned on the telecast last night, been mentioned in other threads, but that Copeland and Roby 4/5 tandem has got to be a thing. Agin (shoutout Doc Sadler), make the opponent adjust to us. Specifically with Purdue, this forces them to put Haas on either Copeland or Roby. Or they have to set Haas on the bench. "They gotta pick they poison"--Glynn Watson. Pull Haas away from the basket and let Palmer do his thing. Let Watson do his thing. Run the court. Run, run the floor and make Haas gallop. Roby and Copeland can get down the floor twice as fast. I don't care if he beats us inside or gets a few extra rebounds. Those points are going to be meaningless if we get out and run. 

 

More ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with started Roby at the 5. The rotation we have seems to be working for the most part, there's no reason to mess around too much. Maybe redistribute minutes a little more between Duby, Jordy and Tanner, but Roby is still really foul prone and they need him out there to finish off the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Roby needs to play more 25+ minutes a game for sure. However if he has to guard a big guy all game he will either have foul problem or be worn down at the end. Still play TB /Jordy at the 5 and then go small when needed or down the stretch. As bad a Jordy has been he still gives you more than Duby unfortunately. I would start Tanner and bring Jordy in off the bench maybe get him some confidence back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to agree, but like Red Rum said, don't start Roby just yet, especially against Purdue.  Give Jordy the early minutes to see if he's able to at least hold his own against PU's monsters.  If he's stinkin' it up, sub in the other players.

 

But, I like the idea of forcing the other team to make a decision personnel-wise.  Miles hasn't had the talent or depth to do that in the past.  It seems he could try to be more aggressive with the roster he now has.  Haas and the other stork they have are going to create trouble for NU defensively, but NU should be able to turn the tables on them with certain matchups on the offensive end as ajb5856 described.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said this in another thread, but it came up again so I'll say it again.  Roby still gets in foul trouble fairly regularly.  Until he can overcome his case of foulitis, making him a starter doesn't actually give him more minutes; it just shifts the minutes he does play earlier in the game.

 

If we're going to make any change to the starters, it seems that finding a way to get Gill into the starting lineup should be the priority.  Gill has proven to be a great offensive player for us this year and he already was an above average defender.  The only problem with that is that it would mess up Miles' entire early-game rotation, since I don't think he'd want to bring in Duby/Roby/Evan at the first media timeout.  None of those three guys have a scorers mentality at this point in their careers, so it may not be an aggressive enough lineup at the 16:00 mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

I said this in another thread, but it came up again so I'll say it again.  Roby still gets in foul trouble fairly regularly.  Until he can overcome his case of foulitis, making him a starter doesn't actually give him more minutes; it just shifts the minutes he does play earlier in the game.

 

If we're going to make any change to the starters, it seems that finding a way to get Gill into the starting lineup should be the priority.  Gill has proven to be a great offensive player for us this year and he already was an above average defender.  The only problem with that is that it would mess up Miles' entire early-game rotation, since I don't think he'd want to bring in Duby/Roby/Evan at the first media timeout.  None of those three guys have a scorers mentality at this point in their careers, so it may not be an aggressive enough lineup at the 16:00 mark.

I could get on board with having another lethal 3 point threat (Gill) starting. Give us a chance to jump out on teams. But, as you mentioned, having firepower to bring in off the bench is beneficial. It's what we've not had in years past when there were literally 2 guys who could score on the entire team. Then it came time to substitute and we would have zero scorers on the floor.

 

The same can be said for saving Roby for first substitution. And, I guess I should clarify since I agree with everyone...my lineup up there isn't necessarily a starting lineup, just a minutes distribution. Don't necessarily agree with starting Roby but we just need to find a way to get him more minutes. And fouls are an issue like many stated. Does no good to put Roby out there just so he can pick up 2 fouls right away. If we have to play Jordy I'd rather get it out of the way at the beginning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that we should keep either Copeland or Roby in the game at all times.  Copeland has been starting, then Roby subs for him.  They both play together late in the game when you want the best team on the floor.  Now they both get close to 30+ minutes and the team is at its best strength the whole game.  That leaves about 20 minutes a game at the 5 position for the Centers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ajb5856 said:

I could get on board with having another lethal 3 point threat (Gill) starting. Give us a chance to jump out on teams. But, as you mentioned, having firepower to bring in off the bench is beneficial. It's what we've not had in years past when there were literally 2 guys who could score on the entire team. Then it came time to substitute and we would have zero scorers on the floor.

 

The same can be said for saving Roby for first substitution. And, I guess I should clarify since I agree with everyone...my lineup up there isn't necessarily a starting lineup, just a minutes distribution. Don't necessarily agree with starting Roby but we just need to find a way to get him more minutes. And fouls are an issue like many stated. Does no good to put Roby out there just so he can pick up 2 fouls right away. If we have to play Jordy I'd rather get it out of the way at the beginning.

 

The coaches seem to be thinking the same thing.  I think Miles is handling the lineup fairly well, although I too would like to see Roby's and Gill's minutes increase a tad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ajb5856 said:

I could get on board with having another lethal 3 point threat (Gill) starting. Give us a chance to jump out on teams. But, as you mentioned, having firepower to bring in off the bench is beneficial. It's what we've not had in years past when there were literally 2 guys who could score on the entire team. Then it came time to substitute and we would have zero scorers on the floor.

 

The same can be said for saving Roby for first substitution. And, I guess I should clarify since I agree with everyone...my lineup up there isn't necessarily a starting lineup, just a minutes distribution. Don't necessarily agree with starting Roby but we just need to find a way to get him more minutes. And fouls are an issue like many stated. Does no good to put Roby out there just so he can pick up 2 fouls right away. If we have to play Jordy I'd rather get it out of the way at the beginning.

Right now: Glynn, Cope, Palmer and Taylor are all getting about 28 minutes a game. Gill is next at 23 and Roby is sixth at 19.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

Right now: Glynn, Cope, Palmer and Taylor are all getting about 28 minutes a game. Gill is next at 23 and Roby is sixth at 19.

Yes. I would love for Roby's minutes to climb to the mid 20s at least. Hopefully he progresses to a point that that can happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Messing with the starting lineup after a victory is bad mojo. After a bad loss, it sometimes may be a wakeup call. At this time of the year, injuries and illnesses, poor effort in practice, and the exigencies of each game should be the main reasons for significant changes in minute allocation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, throwback said:

Probably not a popular opinion, but I liked how we used our big guys last night.

 

We need those guys going forward, even if they are struggling offensively. I felt like Pardon really wore down as we had 3 big guys to throw at him, and then you make him chase Roby late in the half, and he has no gas left.

 

We saw exactly that last night. Pardon was horrible down the stretch. In the final 8 minutes, he had 0 reb, was 1-2 on FG (the only make was a meaningless layup with 0:12 left), was 2-4 from the FT line, and let Copeland dunk in his face. NU went from a 1-pt lead to a 15-pt win in that stretch, as he was no factor.

 

I think the way we used our bigs to wear him down led to that.

 

---

 

I'd certainly like to see our bigs give us more on the offensive end, but we really only need a little bit more out of them going forward. We can generate points without those guys being a big part of the offense. We more need those guys to eat minutes, rebound, and play solidly, wearing down the other team's 5 and opening the door for us to use Roby at the the 5 for 5-6 minutes of each half. I thought they did that for the most part last night.

 

It'd be nice to have Roby getting closer to 25 minutes, but the last thing we need is him picking up 2 fouls before the first media timeout against the other team's 5 when he's fresh, forcing Roby to the bench. Make their big guy bang against our big guys for a while, then let him chase Roby when he's tired.

 

 

Agree with this 100%  Right now what I'd really like to get more of from Jordy is rebounding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, throwback said:

Probably not a popular opinion, but I liked how we used our big guys last night.

 

We need those guys going forward, even if they are struggling offensively. I felt like Pardon really wore down as we had 3 big guys to throw at him, and then you make him chase Roby late in the half, and he has no gas left.

 

We saw exactly that last night. Pardon was horrible down the stretch. In the final 8 minutes, he had 0 reb, was 1-2 on FG (the only make was a meaningless layup with 0:12 left), was 2-4 from the FT line, and let Copeland dunk in his face. NU went from a 1-pt lead to a 15-pt win in that stretch, as he was no factor.

 

I think the way we used our bigs to wear him down led to that.

 

---

 

I'd certainly like to see our bigs give us more on the offensive end, but we really only need a little bit more out of them going forward. We can generate points without those guys being a big part of the offense. We more need those guys to eat minutes, rebound, and play solidly, wearing down the other team's 5 and opening the door for us to use Roby at the the 5 for 5-6 minutes of each half. I thought they did that for the most part last night.

 

It'd be nice to have Roby getting closer to 25 minutes, but the last thing we need is him picking up 2 fouls before the first media timeout against the other team's 5 when he's fresh, forcing Roby to the bench. Make their big guy bang against our big guys for a while, then let him chase Roby when he's tired.

 

 

I think you're right on this.

 

Earlier in the season, like heading into the CU game, I posted a thread that I was ready to see Roby start.  I thought he would be a good match up against CU, which lacked a big post presence but had bigs who could hit from outside.

 

Since that time, though, Isaiah has shown a propensity to get into foul trouble.  And I totally agree you want him on the floor at the end of the game, not fouling out with 5 minutes to play.

 

Purdue is huge.  They go about 8 1/2 deep.  They have about 40 minutes worth of guys who are 7'2" or taller.  Haas gives them right at 21.5 min/game and then KU transfer Matt Haarms (7'3", 250#) gives them the other 18.5 min/game at the 5.  So, they're huge the whole game long.  Our bigs are not going to be in there to give us offense; the trio of Jordy, Duby, and Tanner will be there to push and shove Haas and Haarms as much as possible so that, with 5 minutes to play, they don't have the legs to chase down a Roby and a Copeland.

 

I'm totally good with that.  And what Jimmy said. Now isn't the time to screw around with the lineup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jimmykc said:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Messing with the starting lineup after a victory is bad mojo. After a bad loss, it sometimes may be a wakeup call. At this time of the year, injuries and illnesses, poor effort in practice, and the exigencies of each game should be the main reasons for significant changes in minute allocation. 

 

Gesundheit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If roby started at the 5, he would spend the last 10 minutes of each half on the bench in foul trouble. No way he could play 28-32 minutes guarding a guy that outweighs him by 60-100 pounds.

 

The lineup we finished the game with yesterday is perfect for FINISHING games... Other teams legs are tired, possibly lazier w/ help side defense, etc.

 

The other 3 centers have to play in some capacity and for the most part, have been ok on defense. 

 

 

Edited by Section_316

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with the 5s is not that they don't give us offense, it's that they clog up everyone else's offense. I think if Tanner can continue to catch and finish a little bit that alleviates some of the pressure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I see with NU's big's is twofold. Not only are they no real threats to score (Borchardt does appear to be able to catch the ball and make a shot) but they clog the lane and the man guarding them doesn't have to leave the paint to defend them.  When Roby and Copeland played at same time it really opened up the middle because NW's bigs had to vacate the lane defensively and it opened things up for blow by dunks by Palmer and Copeland. It also creates openings for offensive rebounds as well. It's a heckuva lot easier to just turn and check somebody out 4 feet from the basket then to try find and then box out Roby or Copeland 17 feet from the hoop. There is also the chance for a kick out 3 if help gets there from the guards. But I do think Jordy needs to be the starter and maybe he finds his mojo. 

Edited by rr52

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cumulatively over the past two games, Tanner Borchardt has the most minutes at the post position while Jordy has basically the same minutes as TB... Duby has only played spot minutes. Roby is certainly in the mix there as well, especially late in contests.

 

Edited by AuroranHusker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, throwback said:

Probably not a popular opinion, but I liked how we used our big guys last night.

 

We need those guys going forward, even if they are struggling offensively. I felt like Pardon really wore down as we had 3 big guys to throw at him, and then you make him chase Roby late in the half, and he has no gas left.

 

We saw exactly that last night. Pardon was horrible down the stretch. In the final 8 minutes, he had 0 reb, was 1-2 on FG (the only make was a meaningless layup with 0:12 left), was 2-4 from the FT line, and let Copeland dunk in his face. NU went from a 1-pt lead to a 15-pt win in that stretch, as he was no factor.

 

I think the way we used our bigs to wear him down led to that.

 

---

 

I'd certainly like to see our bigs give us more on the offensive end, but we really only need a little bit more out of them going forward. We can generate points without those guys being a big part of the offense. We more need those guys to eat minutes, rebound, and play solidly, wearing down the other team's 5 and opening the door for us to use Roby at the the 5 for 5-6 minutes of each half. I thought they did that for the most part last night.

 

It'd be nice to have Roby getting closer to 25 minutes, but the last thing we need is him picking up 2 fouls before the first media timeout against the other team's 5 when he's fresh, forcing Roby to the bench. Make their big guy bang against our big guys for a while, then let him chase Roby when he's tired.

 

 

You win the internet today.  Can't say it any better than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, rr52 said:

The problem I see with NU's big's is twofold. Not only are they no real threats to score (Borchardt does appear to be able to catch the ball and make a shot) but they clog the lane and the man guarding them doesn't have to leave the paint to defend them.  When Roby and Copeland played at same time it really opened up the middle because NW's bigs had to vacate the lane defensively and it opened things up for blow by dunks by Palmer and Copeland. It also creates openings for offensive rebounds. It's a heckuva lot easier to just turn and check somebody out 4 feet from the basket then to try find and then box out Roby or Copeland 17 feet from the hoop. But I do think Jordy needs to be the starter and maybe he finds his mojo. 

Tanner's one positive on offense over Duby and Jordy is that he actually sets the high screen, waits for his teammate to use it, and then goes hard to the basket. He's not an offensive threat on his own, but just doing that helps create space by forcing a defender to account for him. I can't stand watching a screener arrive late and leave early. No purpose in running the set if you're not going to do it right. Duby's limited offensively, but he could provide some easy points if he'd execute this better. He's faster than Tanner and more explosive to the rim.

 

Somebody had to provide an old man rant of the day, happy to oblige.

Edited by Chuck Taylor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

I know it’s been stated before, but if you take out the game where Roby got hurt and then do his MPG, how much does it increase?  I know he left early in that one.

 

He's played 20.25 mpg since coming back from that injury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×