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kldm64

Starting lineup

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OK, it is clearly time (and has been for quite some time) for Miles to quit being so stubborn and move Roby into the starting line-up instead of Jody.  Our offense flows much better when we have Copeland and Roby on the floor together and who knows, maybe Jody will actually play better coming off the bench instead of the pressure he is feeling being in the starting line-up.  Hell, Jody can't even win the opening tip. 

 

Come on Miles and do the right thing and make the change already. 

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I sort of agree as well and if he does start or if he comes off the bench I do not think we should force him the ball right away. He is over thinking and lacks confidence. I say run no plays for him and tell him to set picks and go hard after Off rebounds. Maybe he can get comfortable that way and if he gets some confidence then throw it into him a few times.

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The good news is that we are winning.  I think we will see Jordy start on Friday and if it goes the same way it has been going, we’ll see Roby start in a week.  I wouldn’t mind altering the starters based on who we’re playing.

 

For instance, start Jordy against like Minny and Purdue.  Roby against most teams like NW, and these next two.

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Don't think starting is very important except psychologically. To succeed by the end of the year we will need Jordy to rediscover his mojo. If not starting means his waning confidence will go even lower, then continue to start him by all means as long as the team is winning.

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Jordy was much better in his 2nd stint in the 1st half last night than he was to start the game, so there may be some merit to bringing him off the bench. Considering he only played 11 min, pulling down 7 rebounds is pretty impressive. Plus he does some of the little things on offense well, screening off-ball defenders to open driving lanes, etc.

 

Seems like he's less effective when we're trying to force feed him early in the game than when we're letting the offense flow more freely later in the game. If he's going to continue to start, I'd like to see us maybe not make him the focal point immediately and let him just get into the flow of the game more naturally.

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Starting or not starting should neither be a promotion or demotion in my mind.  If it is truly a high character and high quality team, it is about having a versatile line up that knows and embraces roles.  This team (at least so far) seems to have those positive traits.  I am also pretty sure that the coaching staff understands their players. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, kldm64 said:

OK, it is clearly time (and has been for quite some time) for Miles to quit being so stubborn and move Roby into the starting line-up instead of Jody.  Our offense flows much better when we have Copeland and Roby on the floor together and who knows, maybe Jody will actually play better coming off the bench instead of the pressure he is feeling being in the starting line-up.  Hell, Jody can't even win the opening tip. 

 

Come on Miles and do the right thing and make the change already. 

You don't have to be stubborn to do something people on a message board think is unpopular. He knows the kids and how the deal with things mentally and emotionally. Roby is obviously the better player at his point but he had some real foul trouble again last night. 

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25 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Two points:

 

1. It's not who starts the game, but who is in there at the finish that is important.

 

2. I don't think offense is the issue in the decision. 

 

(I do agree that Jordy is struggling big time)

 

I disagree with your #1 point as it does make a difference who starts the game.  It can set the tempo for the game and getting off to a fast start can impact the rest of the game.  You don't want to have to play from behind and the starters typically get the first 4-5 minutes of the game.  Yes, it's important as to who is on the floor at the end of the game but it's equally important who is on the floor at the start of the game as well.

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The recognized issue the last couple games is the asserted effort to start the game by banging the ball down low to Jordy, and Jordy not being able to finish.  We are sort of forcing his participation.  I am not a fan of that strategy, and as kldm mentions, it creates a sluggish start. 

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We'll need Jordy against true bigs.  I thought he played pretty well last night.  He was very active on the glass.  

 

5pts, 7rb in 11min. on 2-3 shooting is solid production.  

 

Compare to Roby:  

 

10pts, 6rb, 1stl, 1blk in 22 minutes on 2-2 shooting.  

 

-------------------------------

 

Now, I think the real argument to be made at this point is starting Gill over Taylor.  The kid is playing fearless and shooting 46% from 3.  I think we're forgetting that he was a legit 4* Louisville recruit, and he's starting to look lightening quick on both ends of the court.  It's been a very nice surprise.  I'd be pretty happy with a 2-deep of:

 

Watson/Taylor

Gill/Allen

Palmer

Copeland/McVeigh

Roby/Jordy/Okeke

 

Something like that, with Taylor and Roby helping with the 3 as needed.  

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1. Unless Roby shows he can stay out of foul trouble, starting won't actually give him any extra minutes.  It will just shift the minutes he does play earlier in the game.

2. I'd consider starting Duby over Jordy.  Both have similar flaws in that they're unskilled offensively and foul prone defensively; the difference is that we continue to unsuccessfully run the offense through the post when Jordy's playing but not when Duby is.  Frankly I'd rather tell Duby to just rebound and be prepared for an occasional alley-oop than continue to have Jordy attempt contested hook shots.

3. I'm OK with Gill as a starter, especially since Allen has proven himself worthy of extra minutes at the 2.  Taylor would be the perfect 6th man since he can give you quality minutes at the 1, 2, or 3.

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I'd rather see us get away from trying to force feed Jordy than flipping the starting lineup.

I think we'll run it back again against Delaware St who has a few big men and then change it up for Stetson and NW, two teams that don't start true centers.

Speaking of NW, Barret Benson is having similar problems.

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3 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

Starting is nice for the boxscore & whatever prestige that entails... in reality, it's the minute distribution & the players in the game at "crunch time" that matter more. Of course, whatever combo it might take to play 'winning' basketball matters most.

There is a reason for starting your best players that goes beyond "boxscore and prestige".  Unless the player at issue is an ironman, starting him is almost always the best way to maximize his minutes on the floor while also maximizing his ability to take rest periods during the game.  For instance, if you never want a player to play more than 8-10 straight minutes, and if Roby sits the first 5-6 minutes of the game, that means he is probably only going to be able to play 10 minutes per half (sit 5 minutes, play 8 minutes, rest 5 minutes, play 2 minutes).  In contrast, if Roby starts, he can easily play 14-16 minutes per half and still get plenty of rest (Play 8 minutes, rest 5 minutes, play 7 minutes).  That is a significant difference.   Roby only played 22 minutes last night.  He is one of the most impactful players on the team and his minutes do not reflect that at this point.

 

Now, can foul trouble change this up.  Of course.  But you don't eliminate the best possible chance to maximize minutes by not starting just because it is "possible" he may get into foul trouble.  Has Roby had foul trouble in some games?  Yes.  But this is even more reason to start him.  He needs to learn how to play more minutes in a game without fouling.  He is less likely to learn that skill if he is never put in that position. 

 

 

 

Edited by NUdiehard

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2 hours ago, LK1 said:

We'll need Jordy against true bigs.  I thought he played pretty well last night.  He was very active on the glass.  

 

5pts, 7rb in 11min. on 2-3 shooting is solid production.  

 

Compare to Roby:  

 

10pts, 6rb, 1stl, 1blk in 22 minutes on 2-2 shooting.  

 

-------------------------------

 

Now, I think the real argument to be made at this point is starting Gill over Taylor.  The kid is playing fearless and shooting 46% from 3.  I think we're forgetting that he was a legit 4* Louisville recruit, and he's starting to look lightening quick on both ends of the court.  It's been a very nice surprise.  I'd be pretty happy with a 2-deep of:

 

Watson/Taylor

Gill/Allen

Palmer

Copeland/McVeigh

Roby/Jordy/Okeke

 

Something like that, with Taylor and Roby helping with the 3 as needed.  

Nick Bahe said it best.  While Roby and Copeland may struggle against Haas on defense, imagine how much Haas will struggle trying to defend Roby and Copeland.  You start your best players, and in my opinion Roby is definitely more helpful to this team then Jordy at the moment!

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30 minutes ago, big red22 said:

Nick Bahe said it best.  While Roby and Copeland may struggle against Haas on defense, imagine how much Haas will struggle trying to defend Roby and Copeland.  You start your best players, and in my opinion Roby is definitely more helpful to this team then Jordy at the moment!

I agree with this. We saw it a little against Kansas. Their big guy was killing us but Roby defended him as well as Jordy and he couldn't guard Roby effectively. I'd actually like us to draw up some plays to get Roby isolated on his guy, especially when it's a big guy. Most big guys will end up getting beat and giving up a good look at the basket or fouling him. I think it could be a way to get Haas off the floor against Purdue.

Edited by Buglem

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34 minutes ago, big red22 said:

Nick Bahe said it best.  While Roby and Copeland may struggle against Haas on defense, imagine how much Haas will struggle trying to defend Roby and Copeland.  You start your best players, and in my opinion Roby is definitely more helpful to this team then Jordy at the moment!

 

4 minutes ago, Buglem said:

I agree with this. We saw it a little against Kansas. Their big guy was killing us but Roby defended him as well as Jordy and he couldn't guard Roby effectively. I'd actually like us to draw up some plays to get Roby isolated on his guy, especially when it's a big guy. Most big guys will end up getting beat and giving up a good look at the basket or fouling him. I think it could be a way to get Haas off the floor against Purdue.

 

Great stuff, guys. Roby is more explosive than Jordy. Roby is quicker than Jordy. Love watching Roby go baseline and finish with a two-handed dunk. I think Roby could be a problem for bigger slower players like Haas and I would love to see him play at the 5 a bit more.

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1 hour ago, NUdiehard said:

There is a reason for starting your best players that goes beyond "boxscore and prestige".  Unless the player at issue is an ironman, starting him is almost always the best way to maximize his minutes on the floor while also maximizing his ability to take rest periods during the game.  For instance, if you never want a player to play more than 8-10 straight minutes, and if Roby sits the first 5-6 minutes of the game, that means he is probably only going to be able to play 10 minutes per half (sit 5 minutes, play 8 minutes, rest 5 minutes, play 2 minutes).  In contrast, if Roby starts, he can easily play 14-16 minutes per half and still get plenty of rest (Play 8 minutes, rest 5 minutes, play 7 minutes).  That is a significant difference.   Roby only played 22 minutes last night.  He is one of the most impactful players on the team and his minutes do not reflect that at this point.

 

Now, can foul trouble change this up.  Of course.  But you don't eliminate the best possible chance to maximize minutes by not starting just because it is "possible" he may get into foul trouble.  Has Roby had foul trouble in some games?  Yes.  But this is even more reason to start him.  He needs to learn how to play more minutes in a game without fouling.  He is less likely to learn that skill if he is never put in that position. 

 

 

 

 

Roby played 30 the prior game. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (as each game is a separate & unique experience) and Miles usually subs guys in within the first 2-3 min. But to each their own.... I don't have a strong feeling either way, tbh.

 

Edited by AuroranHusker

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