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Northwood VS. Nebraska (Exhibition) Game Thread


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23 minutes ago, dustystehl said:

 

I love your reasoning for this! Do you think Duby should be starting over Jordy?

This type of jump in reasoning is typical of today's political discourse. That means your comment lacks reasoning and makes an illogical assumption creating a strawman that is easy to attack. What I said was based on my watching the open practice where they did post work and then open scrimmage, Duby showed better post moves, put himself in better post position and finished better. This small sample size means that is not conclusive evidence of anything but that is my first initial opinion based on what I have seen. I'm reasonable enough to realize that just because something happens once, that doesn't mean it is true in all cases. I will also use that logic when dealing with your future posts. I won't hold your truncated logic in this situation against you going forward and will judge each post on their own merit.

 

No, he should not start. Though it may be close, based on my observations and his past history at Winthrop he has a higher foul rate than Jordy. Starting him might actually decrease the amount of minutes he would be able to play in a game. If he was a hands down, no questions asked better offensive and defensive player than Jordy then he should start. His history shows that he is a better shot blocker than Jordy but when you factor in the fouls, not a major upgrade there. I have already stated I think Duby is farther ahead in his post game (albeit on a very small sample size) but I'm unsure about his rebounding and I have noticed that right now over half of his ball screens are offensive fouls. As a coach, even if I rated Duby out as slightly ahead of Jordy in all facets of the game I would still start Jordy. The two are close and there is no obvious upgrade, Jordy hopefully has a bigger potential upside, and he is going to be here for two more years. That gives Jordy the push.

 

Now you might find my response "douchy," but I have answered your question directly and given logical, basketball related reasons for my opinion. I have been on the board for many years and you will see that my post count is relatively low. That is because I usually avoid chit-chat and prefer to talk about specific basketball issues. My preference is on fundamentals and strategy. I have read NUStudents posts for over a decade now and though many times I don't agree with them and find many of them negative, when pushed, he can give logical arguments for his opinions. (I guess I do have to admit that I posted an entire imaginary discussion one summer on the old board based on if people talked to each other in the real world like they do on discussion boards. If I remember correctly I gave NUStudent an ugly girlfriend in that one so I suppose I should lay off at this point.) This little foray demonstrates why I prefer to avoid this type of thing. 

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8 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

That's a hell of a line for Thomas Allen in his first game in PBA.  Watson's line might have looked very similar had he played.

 

 

I guess it wouldn't be hard to imagine then, why Bill Self wanted him at Kansas.  We should be very excited to have him on our team.

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2 hours ago, dustystehl said:

My biggest take away from last night is that we still don't run much of an offense. It seems like most of the pressure to score is put on one guy. (Petteway in 14-15. Shields in 15-16. White didn't want the role, so Webster got it in 16-17. This year it's Palmer.)

 

There is no action in the high post (where Copeland could be very versatile). Even Shields operated from the three-point line, resulting in an extra dribble (which isn't what you want with a player who isn't a great ball handler - like Copeland).

 

Miles is a good defensive coach, but ever since Craig Smith left (after 13-14), we've been pretty one-dimensional and easy to defend.

 

And why does nobody ever use a pump-fake?

 

I disagree, I like that we start out going to Jody, we need him and IC to be scorers. If he starts off well it opens a lot of things up for others and I have noticed he is looking to pass out of the post when doubled which is great. They also did some high low with him and IC early but really those two did not get a lot of minutes together so hard to get in a rhythm. Jody seems to struggles against small quick defenders more than true big, he likes to bang a little and when they don't it is almost like he gets off balance or tries to complicate things.

 

IMO our season if we want to be a tourney team depends on Jordy being a legit post presence on both ends and IC hitting jump shots. I think our guards will be very good but need those compliments.

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7 minutes ago, Art Vandalay said:

IMO our season if we want to be a tourney team depends on Jordy being a legit post presence on both ends and IC hitting jump shots. I think our guards will be very good but need those compliments.

 

For Jordy to be a legit post presence, he needs to shoot at (or close to) 50%. He'll need to make better decisions than he did last night to do that. He also needs to reduce turnovers. Instead of holding the ball up and protecting it, he holds the ball very low, making it easy for those small, quick defenders to steal the ball from him.

 

In order for Copeland to hit jump shots, he needs to be setup to do that successfully. That means giving him the ball in the high post (not out at the three-point line) where he can shoot a 15-foot jump shot or put the ball on the floor and take two steps to the basket. At the three-point line, his shooting percentage is lower and he has to take an extra dribble/step to the get the rim (which isn't ideal given that he's not a great ball handler).

 

Both of these issues could be improved with the proper coaching.

Edited by dustystehl
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1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

This type of jump in reasoning is typical of today's political discourse. That means your comment lacks reasoning and makes an illogical assumption creating a strawman that is easy to attack. What I said was based on my watching the open practice where they did post work and then open scrimmage, Duby showed better post moves, put himself in better post position and finished better. This small sample size means that is not conclusive evidence of anything but that is my first initial opinion based on what I have seen. I'm reasonable enough to realize that just because something happens once, that doesn't mean it is true in all cases. I will also use that logic when dealing with your future posts. I won't hold your truncated logic in this situation against you going forward and will judge each post on their own merit.

 

Seems more like an issue of whether or not he's messing with you than any sort of logic issue.  You seem to think he is; to be honest given I'd agree with your premise that Dube seems to have a better post game and appreciate your detailed breakdown of why. I think you might be chewing him out for giving you a compliment and asking for more information. I could be wrong

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7 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

Seems more like an issue of whether or not he's messing with you than any sort of logic issue.  You seem to think he is; to be honest given I'd agree with your premise that Dube seems to have a better post game and your detailed breakdown of why, I think you might be chewing him out for giving you a compliment and asking for more information. I could be wrong

 

I was complimenting his analysis and breakdown. I messaged him directly to clear that up. It's all good.

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10 minutes ago, dustystehl said:

 

For Jordy to be a legit post presence, he needs to shoot at (or close to) 50%. He'll need to make better decisions than he did last night to do that. He also needs to reduce turnovers. Instead of holding the ball up and protecting it, he holds the ball very low, making it easy for those small, quick defenders to steal the ball from him.

 

In order for Copeland to hit jump shots, he needs to be setup to do that successfully. That means giving him the ball in the high post (not out at the three-point line) where he can shoot a 15-foot jump shot or put the ball on the floor and take two steps to the basket. At the three-point line, his shooting percentage is lower and he has to take an extra dribble/step to the get the rim (which isn't ideal given that he's not a great ball handler).

 

Both of these issues could be improved with the proper coaching.

 

They were moving IC around from what I saw. He was taking the first pass and then diving to rim or floating out to the three. I agree I like him in the mid range more right now but it seems he caught it in a few different areas and was not afraid to go to the rim. If he starts hitting his threes he will be a handful as last night they were sagging off and giving him that shot. I am assuming once he gets back in shape he will at least be a decent 3 point shooter.

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9 hours ago, Coaches kid said:

IMO this is Miles' most complete roster, and I am hopeful about what this team could accomplish. My "negative" comment is that Copeland's jump shot is too flat. His release point needs some adjustment.  

When I saw Copeland’s jump shot I groaned cuz it is so flat that his window of entry to hit the jumper is very narrow. He will be one dimensionable until he gets some air in his jumper.

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7 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Freethrow line extended, probably.

 

Which reminds me:  We really seem to be trying to feed the post but Jordy keeps on receiving the ball outside the lane and can't maneuver himself to get close enough for a square up kind of shot.

 

And I've been meaning to ask you about this because Jordy seems to like doing a "hook shot" flip over his shoulder where he uses the width of his shoulders to create separation rather than getting a step on his defender and coming square with his chest.

 

What do you think about that?

 

I tend to prefer a hook shot where your body is rotating toward the basket and comes almost square to the shot.  Jordy's shoulders tend to be perpendicular to the backboard (or parallel to the line of the shot) with a defender on his hip.

 

Thoughts?

 

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Actually I would prefer if he actually got his eyes on the target (the rim) prior to shooting. In this respect he reminds me of Maric from prior years who released his shot before eye balling the basket many times. Our seats are down low under basket near NU bench and on two of his shots his head had not turned enough to actually see the basket before shooting the ball. He is coachable and will learn.

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7 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Agreed.  I totally don't get the dissing on Thor.  He's a true freshman who played a lot better than a lot of other true freshmen have played in exhibition games at the beginning of their careers here.  I don't know, were people not watching the same game I was?  Maybe I thought he played relatively well because I wasn't expecting him to look like a junior transfer.

He was aggressive in driving but had no plan and was out of control In my opinion. He is a keeper In my opinion.

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6 hours ago, hskr4life said:

I didn't get a chance to watch the game.  However I heard that they got a lot of long rebounds.  Sometimes you can be in great rebounding position and it just turns out that the ball bounces a different way.  However, I will agree that the rebounding stats were a little scary from last night.

They missed 18 three’s and I would wager that they rebounded at least 10 of those long bouncing bricks.

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4 hours ago, Art Vandalay said:

 

I disagree, I like that we start out going to Jody, we need him and IC to be scorers. If he starts off well it opens a lot of things up for others and I have noticed he is looking to pass out of the post when doubled which is great. They also did some high low with him and IC early but really those two did not get a lot of minutes together so hard to get in a rhythm. Jody seems to struggles against small quick defenders more than true big, he likes to bang a little and when they don't it is almost like he gets off balance or tries to complicate things.

 

IMO our season if we want to be a tourney team depends on Jordy being a legit post presence on both ends and IC hitting jump shots. I think our guards will be very good but need those compliments.

Jordy struggles against quicker shorter people because he brings the ball down to his waist way too much!

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Don't agree that Jordy has a worse post game.  The touch is not comparable IMO.  He did play poorly Tuesday though.   Do agree with Norm, that his technique on the jump hook needs polishing.  Making it harder than it should be.  

 

The main takeways I have from the game is that Palmer is really good.  He is better than what I expected Copeland to be by a lot.  Unfortunately, Copeland appears to be a little worse than I expected Palmer to be.  I am really hoping it is just rust, but would like to see some better play soon.  Small net gain from my expectations, with a lot of upside if it is simply Copeland shaking off the rust.   The other main thing is that Allen looks like the real deal.  He has that "it" factor, and can shoot the basketball well.  

Edited by royalfan
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Palmer is definitely a surprise--an enormous, fringe NBA talent surprise.  Amazing get.  

 

Allen is exactly what I thought he would be.  He has an unteachable talent for scoring the ball and will go down as one of our best guards ever.  

 

I'm very encouraged by what I see with Copeland.  He's got three games under his belt and has been contributing more and more each game.  12pts on 5-12 shooting isn't bad.  I think his 3p% will climb and have no problem with him taking that shot.  I'm thrilled that his athleticism is the same level as it was when he was healthy in prior seasons.  His full stat line:  12pts, 4rbs, 3st, 1blk, 0 TOs is pretty darned good for game three.  I think he'll get better and better.  

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12 minutes ago, LK1 said:

Palmer is definitely a surprise--an enormous, fringe NBA talent surprise.  Amazing get.  

 

Allen is exactly what I thought he would be.  He has an unteachable talent for scoring the ball and will go down as one of our best guards ever.  

 

Where can I get what you are taking to make you so happy and optimistic? I need some. 

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4 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Where can I get what you are taking to make you so happy and optimistic? I need some. 

 

I don't think it's too far of a stretch.

 

James is big, can shoot, can drive, can hit free throws, plays decent D and is pretty athletic.  He is right there with Petteway, and I would say Petteway was a fringe NBA player.

 

Allen could go down as one of the best guards ever.  Think Glynns improvement from Freshman year until now.  Now think of what Allen is accomplishing scoring wise now... he is just going to get better and better.

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Just now, hskr4life said:

 

I don't think it's too far of a stretch.

 

James is big, can shoot, can drive, can hit free throws, plays decent D and is pretty athletic.  He is right there with Petteway, and I would say Petteway was a fringe NBA player.

 

Allen could go down as one of the best guards ever.  Think Glynns improvement from Freshman year until now.  Now think of what Allen is accomplishing scoring wise now... he is just going to get better and better.

Either way it was a cry for help from me. Thanks for dismissing my issues! 

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48 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Where can I get what you are taking to make you so happy and optimistic? I need some. 

 

Yeah, it's pretty objective man.  Kent said before the broadcast that this is the most talented roster he's seen since the Nee era, and I completely agree.  The difference between what we have on the roster now vs. Nee is that Nee put out actual, true contributing NBA roster talent for several years.  We have several players that will get a look, but still don't have a T. Lue, Piatkowski, or Strickland.  

 

That said, every guy in the starting lineup is a fringe NBA talent with the exception of Taylor (plenty athletic in his own right).  I don't think that's a stretch if the players are developed properly.  I see that with Allen as well--he reminds me a lot of Chris Paul.  

 

I see basically every player on the roster being able to play professionally overseas at a minimum.  That's nothing to scoff at.  

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One positive note on James Palmer from the Northwood game: remember when we went to a full-court press--once; and James Palmer stole the ball immediately? 

Now that was impressive.  There's no way those guards could handle pressure like that.  So, we never did it again--it's an exhibition game, after all.

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