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Handy Johnson

Nana to Redshirt?

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I raised this question in a different thread but wanted to speak to it directly. Assuming Jordy, Isaac, Evan, Jim & Glynn start, that means the next 5 off the bench, in no particular order are Anton, Isiah, Jack, Tom & Okeke. I get that Freshman want to play NOW & supposedly Nana is a deadeye shooter, but if you're the 6th man off the bench is that really "playing"? Given his slight frame, our legitimate depth, & the spot PT he's looking at, I think it behooves him and the Program to Redshirt.

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Coach Miles is in a win now type of situation, though, so that may play into it some.  Would he burn a redshirt for a guy that might only play in a game or two?...but if that guy can help you win those games it could make the difference between a contract extension or the unemployment line.  I dunno I'm just spitballing here.

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You do what's best for the kid first. You do what's best for the team second. You do what's best for your job a few more spots down the line. I think you have an honest convesation with the kid and say: "Look, Nana, you're a good player and you're going to be a big part of this program, but right now, you're the 10th or 11th player on the roster. You can redshirt, get stronger, work on your game or you can try and earn playing time. If you earn it, you'll play, but you've got a lot, A LOT of work to do to crack the rotation. It's up to you." That's basically what he's done in the past. I expect he'll do that again.

Edited by uneblinstu

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Coach Miles is in a win now type of situation, though, so that may play into it some.  Would he burn a redshirt for a guy that might only play in a game or two?...but if that guy can help you win those games it could make the difference between a contract extension or the unemployment line.  I dunno I'm just spitballing here.
I agree with this line of thought. The one thing I'll add is that red shirting a player seems to reduce the likelihood of transfer, which would definitely be good for the program. This decision could reveal much in Miles' confidence for the season and his job security down the line.

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30 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Do whatever you need to do to make the kid think he's in control, happy, and doesn't transfer. 

 

And if the kid says "I want to play and I want to play now."  Do you play him and risk losing a few games just to keep one kid?  If not and he transfers what else could you have done?  I wish it was that easy in this day and age, but kids all think they should play and play now.  I hope Nana sees that he could really benefit from a redshirt.

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1 minute ago, hskr4life said:

 

And if the kid says "I want to play and I want to play now."  Do you play him and risk losing a few games just to keep one kid?  If not and he transfers what else could you have done?  I wish it was that easy in this day and age, but kids all think they should play and play now.  I hope Nana sees that he could really benefit from a redshirt.

I think redshirting in college basketball is silly. 

You play him when you can, you communicate to him where he is at, develop a strong relationship with him, and sell the future to him. 

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1 hour ago, uneblinstu said:

You do what's best for the kid first. You do what's best for the team second. You do what's best for your job a few more spots down the line. I think you have an honest convesation with the kid and say: "Look, Nana, you're a good player and you're going to be a big part of this program, but right now, you're the 10th or 11th player on the roster. You can redshirt, get stronger, work on your game or you can try and earn playing time. If you earn it, you'll play, but you've got a lot, A LOT of work to do to crack the rotation. It's up to you." That's basically what he's done in the past. I expect he'll do that again.

Slightly different take here. We asked and you chose to come here so my number1 is what's best for the team and then what's best for the kid slides in at 2. I realize this is crazy talk in 2017 but you are one part of a larger whole and making sacrifices for what is best for the team even if it isn't exactly what you see as what is best for you is part of being a member of a team. I can hear the snickering by people leaving because they didn't get to play the position they have their heart set on but that's what the door is there for. 

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Everyone has to remember they are only a couple weeks into practice. I think it reasonable to think that is why T Allen got very few minutes and zero for Nana. In normaly years they have a couple more weeks to prepare for an exhibition or scrimmage, it is a big jump even for highly ranked freshman.

 

I think Nana especially will have a little steeper curve learning to guard on the wings in major college hoops. I would not be surprised at all to seem more PT for them a month from now depending how much work ethic they have.

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27 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I think redshirting in college basketball is silly. 

You play him when you can, you communicate to him where he is at, develop a strong relationship with him, and sell the future to him. 

 

I know you guys don't want any Creighton on this board but even Justin Patton, who was a first round pick after one year of playing, redshirted first and he absolutely needed to. Redshirting allows a player to make much more progress during the season in terms of building up his body (and learning the mental side of the game) than playing would. It's hard to focus on those sorts of things if you're worried about preparing for the next opponent. I covered Patton in high school and I said all along redshirting would be the best thing for him, and I don't believe he would have been as good as quickly as he was if he had played and been the third center his first year. On a related note, it will be interesting to see how Miles handles Brady Heiman next year.

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Ordinarily, a player who won't see much playing time as a Freshman should not redshirt: with only 13 scholarships, he either needs to make good progress or move on to a conference that's commensurate with his skill and ability.  Jeriah Horne is an example: a redshirt would have hampered his opportunity to move on.

By the same token, it seems pure silliness to redshirt someone destined to be an NBA first rounder: his college team gets only one performance year from him!  The redshirt season gives the appearance that the coaches did't know what they had and failed to figure it out for an entire freshman season.

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13 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

Ordinarily, a player who won't see much playing time as a Freshman should not redshirt: with only 13 scholarships, he either needs to make good progress or move on to a conference that's commensurate with his skill and ability.  Jeriah Horne is an example: a redshirt would have hampered his opportunity to move on.

By the same token, it seems pure silliness to redshirt someone destined to be an NBA first rounder: his college team gets only one performance year from him!  The redshirt season gives the appearance that the coaches did't know what they had and failed to figure it out for an entire freshman season.

 

I would tend to agree with this.  However, I don't think that Nana isn't going to get much time because he isn't able to play in the Big 10.  I think Nana isn't going to get a lot of time because we have actual depth on the depth chart.  That is why I think that Nana would be a good candidate for a redshirt.  Jeriah was always a tweener and we needed him to play last year.  I would say Nana is a tweener as well, but leaning more towards Big 10 ready... we just do not need him this year like we did Jeriah last year.

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1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

Slightly different take here. We asked and you chose to come here so my number1 is what's best for the team and then what's best for the kid slides in at 2. I realize this is crazy talk in 2017 but you are one part of a larger whole and making sacrifices for what is best for the team even if it isn't exactly what you see as what is best for you is part of being a member of a team. I can hear the snickering by people leaving because they didn't get to play the position they have their heart set on but that's what the door is there for. 

 

A-frickin'-men.

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1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

Slightly different take here. We asked and you chose to come here so my number1 is what's best for the team and then what's best for the kid slides in at 2. I realize this is crazy talk in 2017 but you are one part of a larger whole and making sacrifices for what is best for the team even if it isn't exactly what you see as what is best for you is part of being a member of a team. I can hear the snickering by people leaving because they didn't get to play the position they have their heart set on but that's what the door is there for. 

Yeah, I think you're right here. I think, if the kid approaches it the right way, what's best for the team will often be what's best for the kid, even if it doesn't feel that way in the moment.

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39 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

Ordinarily, a player who won't see much playing time as a Freshman should not redshirt: with only 13 scholarships, he either needs to make good progress or move on to a conference that's commensurate with his skill and ability.  Jeriah Horne is an example: a redshirt would have hampered his opportunity to move on.

By the same token, it seems pure silliness to redshirt someone destined to be an NBA first rounder: his college team gets only one performance year from him!  The redshirt season gives the appearance that the coaches did't know what they had and failed to figure it out for an entire freshman season.

 

Honestly, Swan, I tend to disagree with SOME of this.  I think you're right that a guy like Jeriah wouldn't redshirt.  I think Jeriah was a lot closer to his ceiling than, say, Isaiah Roby.  A redshirt wouldn't have done him much good.  It might have done Isaiah some good, though, due to his frame and needing to add weight, and due to his injury situation.  I can understand why the coaches chose to play Isaiah, though.  He was worthy of being in the regular rotation, so it's not like a wasted year (Tanner Borchardt playing 2 minutes.) And I think it was good for Isaiah to get a feel for the speed of the college game.  But he's one I could go either way on.

 

If a kid has a lot of upside and needs a year to develop but the signs are there that he could be pretty special later in his career, I think it makes sense to redshirt the kid, especially if the alternative is that he plays extremely limited minutes now.  That's Thor.  If his skills are already pretty solid and his physical side is such that you're not looking to develop him much there or add a ton of weight, then probably no redshirt.  See Jeriah Horne.

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I have a feeling they freshmen will get thrown out there during the secret scrimmage, possibly against ISU's bench and other freshmen to get reps, as well as the scrimmage on the 2nd.  Let them get some legs under them and evaulate more at that time.  No need to decide things this week yet.

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Tough to make a call on redshirting.  I will go contrary to some, but redshirting is a good alternative.  But many factors go into it.  Redshirting now seems to be a tool to be leveraged when you transfer.  Unless I am mistaken if a kid leverages his redshirt and then decides to transfer, he loses a year of eligibility.  So if there is a hint of a chance that you will transfer, there is no way you are going to want to redshirt. 

 

My thinking is that freshmen redshirts are for 1, 2 or 3 star type players.  But if you are a high 3 or above recruit, redshirting is likely held back for transferring.

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I agree Nana plays a similiar role as Jeriah Horne. The good thing about his situation is Gill and Taylor are seniors so some clock will be freed up for next year. Jeriah was competing and losing time to other freshmen and sophomores.

 

Thor is the only that will redshirt imo. 

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