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McVeigh Playing in the World University Games

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Or how about this paragraph from the same article:

 

"The 6-foot-8 forward moved into the starting lineup for Australia’s final four games and played some of his best basketball, averaging 14.8 points per game on 61 percent shooting in that span."

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1 hour ago, Swan88 said:

Or how about this paragraph from the same article:

 

"The 6-foot-8 forward moved into the starting lineup for Australia’s final four games and played some of his best basketball, averaging 14.8 points per game on 61 percent shooting in that span."

 

That's frickin music to my ears.

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That's absolutely what he needs: confidence in his shooting.  Now that he knows he can do it (and from a deeper 3-pt line) he'll know he can shoot himself out of slumps here.

 

McVeigh, at worst, is sounding like a top-notch 6th man, if not holding/regaining his spot in the starting lineup.

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On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 10:36 AM, Norm Peterson said:

 

When Jack was recruited, Miles described him as not just a 180 guy, but more like a 190 guy.

 

He's been performing like a 150 guy.

 

I hate seeing 1-7 on 3s from a guy whose primary skill is nailing the long ball.  I was hoping he'd just lost some confidence in his stroke last year in the midst of a tough season -- which would be understandable -- and that he'd get it back -- which would certainly be possible.  But 1-7 doesn't sound like a guy who's regained his form and ready to be a 40%+ shooter from 3 point range.  I'm hoping I'm wrong.  We needed Jack to be that guy last year.  It would clearly be helpful if he could be that guy this year.

 

60% from the field and 42% from 3-point range sounds like a guy who's regained his (confidence in his) form and ready to be a 40%+ shooter from deep for us this year.

 

Happy for Jack; happy for the Huskers because that's yuge.

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35 minutes ago, 49r said:

He's still gotta improve on the defensive end though Norm.  That, IMO, is what's really been holding him back at NU.

 

Considering the team ranked 303rd in the nation in 3-pt defense (or something terrible like that) I don't think the rest of the guys have probably distanced themselves from Jack defensively to any great degree.

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All the box scores

https://data.2017.gov.taipei/atos/prod/eng/zb/engzb_basketball-athlete-profile-nbkm400aus01-australia.htm


The recaps

August 20: Australia lost to Ukraine 76-80
August 21: Australia defeated Lithuania 84-82
August 23: Australia lost to Israel 72-89
August 24: Australia defeated Russia 89-71
August 25: Australia defeated Mozambique 87-58
August 27: Classification 9-16 – Australia defeated Estonia 105-93
August 28: Classification 9-12 – Australia defeated Mexico 93-71
August 29: Classification 9-10 – Australia defeated Canada 98-95

 

I think it will be about how consistent McVeigh can be from game to game.  We're probably going to see more slumps and streaks from him this season and hopefully we have the depth to mitigate the slumps.  

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Here are Jack's shooting stats for each game in the tournament:

 

Date         2 pts.      3 pts.

20th          0/1          1/2          

21st           ----           ----

23rd           1/1         0/1

24th           2/3         2/4

25th           8/9         1/7

27th           3/3         2/3

28th           1/3         3/5

29th           4/5         2/4

Totals      19/25    11/26

Percent     76.0%    42.3%

 

Who knows what happened on the 25th -- great 2 point percentage and lousy 3 point percentage.  Maybe he chucked up a long shot at the end of each quarter?

But if we were to remove the 1/7 outlier on 3 pointers, he went 10/19 -- that's 52.6%.

Edited by Swan88

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Couple of observations about Jack -- and, Swan, good work crunching those numbers, but can you do me a favor and also dig up number of fouls and number of fouls drawn?

 

When I look at the box score, I LOVE this fouls drawn stat.  I wish they kept track of and reported that stat as a regular part of the box score for our games.  Just as an example, in the Australia's 9th place game against Canada, Xavier Cooks drew 6 fouls, committed zero, and was 5/7 from the line.  A guy who's drawing 6 fouls is really putting the opposing team at a disadvantage, not only because he's getting you into the bonus quicker, but also because when your opponent is in foul trouble, it really changes how aggressive they can be.

 

So, in that Canada game, Jack drew 2 fouls and committed none even though he blocked 3 shots.  So, he's playing aggressive but clean D.  (He also had 2 steals and no turnovers.)

 

The other thing I notice is that Jack was taking more than half of his shots inside the arc.  I'm guessing he was attacking the basket off the dribble, just because it would be unusual to have that many 2-point shots otherwise.  They're not feeding him in the low post, in other words.  Maybe he's getting putbacks, but that wouldn't appear to be the case due to his offensive rebounding numbers.

 

I'm glad to see this about Jack.  I think it shows some maturation in his game.  I know he would drive occasionally for us, but I don't think it was a big part of his tool kit.  And, if his 3-point shot is off, it's a big help to be able to take it to the rack and draw fouls.  The game where he was 1/7 from 3, he was 8/9 from 2.

Edited by Norm Peterson

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21 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

Who knows what happened on the 25th -- great 2 point percentage and lousy 3 point percentage.  Maybe he chucked up a long shot at the end of each quarter?

 

Probably the same thing that happened when he went 1-7 vs VT last year (or 1-6 vs Minnesota and Michigan): He had a bad 3pt shooting day.

It certainly might be fluky but last year he had better shooting games against worst teams. (that thanksgiving tourney killed that stat)

 

To me a 35-38% 3pt shooting average with various games saying "thank god he's out there" and "why the hell is that guy out there" is what I expect.

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3 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

The other thing I notice is that Jack was taking more than half of his shots inside the arc.  I'm guessing he was attacking the basket off the dribble, just because it would be unusual to have that many 2-point shots otherwise.  They're not feeding him in the low post, in other words.  Maybe he's getting putbacks, but that wouldn't appear to be the case due to his offensive rebounding numbers.

 

I'm glad to see this about Jack.  I think it shows some maturation in his game.  I know he would drive occasionally for us, but I don't think it was a big part of his tool kit.  And, if his 3-point shot is off, it's a big help to be able to take it to the rack and draw fouls.  The game where he was 1/7 from 3, he was 8/9 from 2.

 

OK, for comparison's sake, last season, Jack took 71% of his shots from beyond the arc and only 29% of his shots were attempted from inside the arc.  For Team Australia, Jack took only 46% of his shots outside the arc (where he was still very efficient) and all of 54% inside the arc (where he was hugely efficient.)

 

If Jack can get to the rack, I'd take it.  If he can shoot 40%+ from three for us this coming season, I'd take it. 

 

People might forget that he averaged 7.5 ppg for us last year playing less than 23 min on average.  It's not a big step for him to get to double figures in scoring.

 

Edited by Norm Peterson

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Thank you Norm.

 

Ive seen a few ppl label Jack as the odd man out of the rotation (some even as a bench warmer) and i just cant fathom that at all.

 

1. He averaged almost 8 a game for us last year

2. He possesses a skill we desperately need more of = 3pt shooting

3. He has the right attitude and mindset to maximize what he's good at and minimize his weaknesses. Unlike, lets say, AW3.

4. You cant teach height and length

 

Now im not saying he will be a first team all american by any means. But i think were getting a steady dose of Jack McTrey this season.

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It will be interesting to see how much he plays at the 4 especially early on if Copeland isn't available right away. If so will that help eliminate some of the issues of him having to defend perimeter players. I'm sure he'll still need to get quicker in closing out perimeter shooters. On offense, with other outside scoring options he might get a chance to play a more inside/outside game. I don't think his ceiling is as high as Copeland or Roby but he could help get some valuable bench points and minutes

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5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Swan, . . . can you do me a favor and also dig up number of fouls and number of fouls drawn?

 

 

Norm,  for the eight tournament games Jack played, he made 4 of 7 foul shots: he went 1 of 2 in games on the 24th and 25th and went 2 of 3 on the 29th.

And he committed 9 fouls: 1 each game on the 20th, 21st, 27th and 28th, 2 on the 23rd, 3 on the 24th, and none on the 25th and 29th.

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Tai Webster

Minutes/avg/season:  22.8; 18.4; 27.7; 34.7

Points/avg/season:  3.9; 3.9; 10.1; 17.0

Career 3s attempted (4 seasons):  283.  Career 3s made: 79.

Total minutes through first two seasons: 1280

 

Jack McVeigh

Minutes/avg/season:  17.0; 22.9

Points/avg/season:  4.8; 7.5

Career 3s attempted (2 seasons): 239.  Career 3s made: 81.

Total minutes through first two seasons: 1265

 

Just musing.

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10 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Tai Webster

Minutes/avg/season:  22.8; 18.4; 27.7; 34.7

Points/avg/season:  3.9; 3.9; 10.1; 17.0

Career 3s attempted (4 seasons):  283.  Career 3s made: 79.

Total minutes through first two seasons: 1280

 

Jack McVeigh

Minutes/avg/season:  17.0; 22.9

Points/avg/season:  4.8; 7.5

Career 3s attempted (2 seasons): 239.  Career 3s made: 81.

Total minutes through first two seasons: 1265

 

Just musing.

 

But they were kind of asked to do different things, no?  Tai came in playing mostly PG, on a team with three volume scorers.  He wasn't asked to jack up a bunch of threes, especially early in his career, and was at BEST the #4 option behind Petteway, Pitch, and Shields.  His early role was really one of taking care of the ball and playing D.  

 

Jack came in as a shooter.  You can live with his shortcomings on defense as long as he's making up for it on the offensive end.  If he was a lock down defender and solid ball handler, then his shooting slumps would be easier to pallet...but I don't think it's a stretch to say that he is both a below average defender and below average ball handler.  

 

There's still absolutely a role for Jack on this team, and hopefully a large one where he's draining treys.  But I don't think comparing his statistics with Tai's proves that.

 

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 2:06 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Considering the team ranked 303rd in the nation in 3-pt defense (or something terrible like that) I don't think the rest of the guys have probably distanced themselves from Jack defensively to any great degree.

This, it's not just Jack.  If he can score a bunch, I will cut him some slack on defense.

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And question for the board in general: but do any of you actually want Jack to transfer?  I periodically see people claim that "others" want Jack gone (heck, I may have even blamed those terrible "others" from time to time...) but I don't think I've actually heard/seen anyone actually say it.  It's always The Other Guy.  Just curious.

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18 hours ago, khoock said:

Ive seen a few ppl label Jack as the odd man out of the rotation (some even as a bench warmer) and i just cant fathom that at all.

 

I think we know for the most part what we're going to get with Jack and it's a matter of how consistent he is. If we define "in the rotation" as playing 10+ minutes, he was in the rotation for 25 of 30 games last year.  With another year of experience under his belt and our lack of height it would seem that if we had 8 or 9 guys who were "Miles rotation guys' in addition to McVeigh that Miles would expand the number of people in the rotation.

 

Then it's a matter of what position he's going to play. (Assuming no Copeland) As our '4' you can ink him in for 10+ easy and he's got a decent enough shot of starting there over Roby if Roby hasn't upped his game enough. No brainer he plays minutes in this scenario.

 

With Copeland in and performing like he did as a Fr/Soph, then Jack finds himself competing with Roby and Copeland for the 4 spot.  Is he going to win that?   There is a good chance he places #3 in that race.

Then you're looking at competing at the 3 with the likes of Palmer, Taylor, Nana....all the big guards we have on this guard heavy team. At this point Jack's minutes become a lot more matchup centric and how much input we're getting from our 3 freshmen/Anton Gill.

 

I'd agree that it's difficult to see McVeigh out of the rotation as the most likely explanation is that we have 8-9 guys better that a guy who is at worst a decent B1G player.  I can also see why people would want to think we have 8-9 guys better than McVeigh on this roster.....

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