hskr4life

Thomas Allen is N

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On 4/24/2017 at 0:06 PM, hhcdimes said:

Freshman year numbers

 

Glynn Watson: 24.6 mpg - 8.6 ppg

Tarin Smith: 17.6 mpg - 4.3 ppg

 

Smith was a nice enough player and I'm expecting that his numbers represent what we would expect from a somewhat disappointing year with Allen (obviously he could have worse due to injury or whatnot).  Watson's number seem like a good year for Allen and exceeding those numbers, especially the scoring, would be phenomenal.

 

Anyone expecting Allen to perform better or worse than these two guys and why

 

Not really disputing these numbers at all, I think they are a good barometer of what to expect. It's just really exciting to think, "okay this guy is a knockdown shooter and he likes to score and knows how to win." We have a number of guys that can come in and create for others, and Thomas could find himself in games where he catches the effect of those players creating good shots, and scores 20, 25 points with 6 three pointers. I mean Glynn, Roby, Copeland, Anton, Evan Taylor even, hopefully Nana. We are going from a backcourt of Benny and Tai just a few years ago, to Glynn and Thomas.. do you see the difference of what we could do??

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23 hours ago, noahjb24 said:

We have a number of guys that can come in and create for others

 

Other than Glynn, who?

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:44 PM, LK1 said:

 

I think Allen will average low double figures.  I don't think he's going to be a typical freshman at all.  Being a seriously elite shooter can offset a whole lot of things.  This is kid is a scorer first, and he can do it from three, he can pull up, and he has a soft floater.  Playing alongside Glynn means they're both going to have a lot of open shots in transition, kickouts, etc.  They remind a lot of KU's backcourt this past season.  

 

We've only had six freshmen ever score in double figures.  Three were the all time leading scorers in program history (Hoppen, Fort, Piatkowski), two went on to not average double figures over their careers (Jake Muhleisen, Ryan Anderson), and one was the biggest flame-out in program history who came back 40 lbs heavier his second year after an offseason regimen of magic herbs and cheeseburgers (Joe McCray).

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5 hours ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

We've only had six freshmen ever score in double figures.  Three were the all time leading scorers in program history (Hoppen, Fort, Piatkowski), two went on to not average double figures over their careers (Jake Muhleisen, Ryan Anderson), and one was the biggest flame-out in program history who came back 40 lbs heavier his second year after an offseason regimen of magic herbs and cheeseburgers (Joe McCray).

But to be fair, some of our freshmen (such as Lue and Hamilton) were not called on to be major scorers when they were freshmen.  Heck, Lue and Hamilton had Mikki, Strickland, Boone and others on the floor playing major minutes.  The make up of a team somewhat dictates the scoring that is needed.  But your point is well made.

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All I'm expecting out of Allen is to be able to knock down 2-4 threes a game. If he can do that regularly  (with the couple exceptions where he'll be extremely hot or cold) I'd be satisfied.

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21 hours ago, khoock said:

All I'm expecting out of Allen is to be able to knock down 2-4 threes a game. If he can do that regularly  (with the couple exceptions where he'll be extremely hot or cold) I'd be satisfied.

 

You do know the national leader in 3's per game last year averaged 3.91? And only 30 players nationally averaged 3.0 or more. AW3 averaged 3.19. 

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On 4/29/2017 at 10:30 AM, khoock said:

All I'm expecting out of Allen is to be able to knock down 2-4 threes a game. If he can do that regularly  (with the couple exceptions where he'll be extremely hot or cold) I'd be satisfied.

 

Four makes per game is essentially Steph Curry level which is going to be tough to replicate.  Even if Allen's utilization is high as a freshman, I feel his ceiling for attempts is going to be 3 or 4 per game.  If his game is sufficiently diverse such that he isn't only a 3-point specialist, then some of his attempts will be from closer-in.  Maybe someone like Palmer or Nana (less likely) fulfills the sharpshooting role next year and and is also good for 4 attempts per game?  But they would do that at the expense of some of McVeigh's shots.

 

Our offense was pretty stagnant last year, but I'm also hoping we improve our FG% so overall attempts may not change much.  The offense we are replacing from last year:

 

Tai:  14 FGA per game

Morrow/Jacobson/Horne/Fuller:  18 FGA per game

 

With Glynn/Jordy/Roby/Taylor/Gill (hopefully) getting more production and the addition of Palmer/Copeland/Nana and to a much lesser extent Duby, I don't think there's going to be 10+ FGA to give to Allen.

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I think Allen will make 1-3 3s a game on 4-6 attempts.  The thing that's different about him is that he has a jumper and is a good finisher around the rim, so I think he'll contribute inside the arc as well.  That's where my double figures predictions come from.  The kid has a true jump shot and a scorer's mentality.  

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That would make a very potent combination, indeed.  It seems that something we are lacking is someone with a consistent jump shot that is so difficult to guard.  IIRC some were hoping that Ed could develop his jump shot, increasing his scoring threat inside the arc.

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I used to do that, except, I'd take the ball behind my back, right to left and then under my knee back to my right hand to jam.

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57 minutes ago, fred1212 said:

I used to do that, except, I'd take the ball behind my back, right to left and then under my knee back to my right hand to jam on my kid's Little Tykes 4 foot plastic rim.

 

 

FIFY

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Wish it was basketball season already! All the new pieces are intriguing to me bc we dont know what we really have. Thomas Allen, Nana Akenten, James Palmer, Isaac Copeland, Duby Okeke and Anton Gill. Hopefully we finally catch a break and all of them turn out to be what we're expecting them to be.

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5 minutes ago, khoock said:

Hopefully we finally catch a break and all of them turn out to be what we're expecting them to be.

 

I'll gladly accept 50% hit rate on this.

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1 minute ago, 49r said:

 

I'll gladly accept 50% hit rate on this.

I think we need 4/6 "breaks".

-Copeland to be eligible all yr 

-Palmer to, minimally, be a competent SG

-Either Nana or Allen to be ready to play and contribute at the D1 lvl

-Duby has to be ready to play with the big boys bc we need a backup C badly

 

If BOTH Nana and Allen are solid contributors great and if Anton bounces back from his injury even better!

 

Not really worried about the returning players bc Miles and Co. have proven they can develop players.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, khoock said:

I think we need 4/6 "breaks".

-Copeland to be eligible all yr 

-Palmer to, minimally, be a competent SG

-Either Nana or Allen to be ready to play and contribute at the D1 lvl

-Duby has to be ready to play with the big boys bc we need a backup C badly

 

If BOTH Nana and Allen are solid contributors great and if Anton bounces back from his injury even better!

 

Not really worried about the returning players bc Miles and Co. have proven they can develop players.

 

Yeah, I think Duby is muy importanto.  He has to be healthy; he has to be in shape; and he has to be developed to where he's not foul prone.  Don't necessarily need him to be able to do much scoring, but he does need to hold down the paint, box out, get rebounds, and get putbacks on the offensive side.  We probably need 15-18 min/game out of Duby.  Any scoring from Duby would be a bonus.

 

Jordy needs to be healthy, in shape, and developed as well.  We might want a little scoring out of Jordy.

 

So what do you do with those guys in the summer so that they're ready to go in the fall?  I've been thinking about this and I'd be curious about @Dean Smith and @basketballjones's thoughts on the matter.

 

So, the real Dean Smith back at North Carolina used to have his guys go one-on-one against each other in practice.  I think that's a great way of developing certain skills.  I think that's especially true in Miles' offense, which depends a lot on one guy beating his defensive counterpart.

 

So, what would you do with the bigs to develop them using one-on-one situations?  And I've been thinking about this and would be interested in thoughts.

 

I think you have to have some kind of shot clock.  Whether that's an actual clock or just a coach moving his hand to count like a ref, either way, but I think there needs to be a time limit on the offensive player to get a shot off.  Like maybe 5 seconds at the most.

 

I think the offensive player should be rewarded for scoring a basket, but the defensive player should get rewarded for making a stop.  So, what values?  Maybe 2 points for a bucket and 1 point for a stop?  Or 1 point for forcing a bad shot or getting a block or a turnover?

 

Have a coach or a manager enter the ball to the post, and the post guy has to initiate his move with his back to the basket.  In other words, I wouldn't want to see them go out 15 feet, catch the ball and then turn and face the basket and basically try a dribble drive like they're guards.  I'd want to see them post up and score against defense.

 

I suppose you could have the offensive player start out on the block and slap the ball to simulate catching the entry pass and then have 4-5 seconds to get his shot off.

 

If he scores, award him the value of the basket.

If he runs out of time, forces a bad shot, gets blocked or turns it over, award a point to the defender.

If he draws a foul, award 1 point to the offensive player and he goes again.

If he grabs an offensive rebound, he simply retains possession.

Defensive rebound changes the possession and the players switch.

 

If the offensive player has no shot, he can kick it out to avoid awarding a point to the defender (because you don't want to develop a habit of forcing bad shots) but inbounding rules would apply, right?  So, if he doesn't get it kicked out with at least a second left on his "shot clock" it's a turnover and you award the point to the defender.

 

Dean?  Jones?  Is that anything you might do to develop your posts in the off-season?

 

 

Edited by Norm Peterson

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On 6/27/2017 at 3:47 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Yeah, I think Duby is muy importanto.  He has to be healthy; he has to be in shape; and he has to be developed to where he's not foul prone.  Don't necessarily need him to be able to do much scoring, but he does need to hold down the paint, box out, get rebounds, and get putbacks on the offensive side.  We probably need 15-18 min/game out of Duby.  Any scoring from Duby would be a bonus.

 

Jordy needs to be healthy, in shape, and developed as well.  We might want a little scoring out of Jordy.

 

So what do you do with those guys in the summer so that they're ready to go in the fall?  I've been thinking about this and I'd be curious about @Dean Smith and @basketballjones's thoughts on the matter.

 

So, the real Dean Smith back at North Carolina used to have his guys go one-on-one against each other in practice.  I think that's a great way of developing certain skills.  I think that's especially true in Miles' offense, which depends a lot on one guy beating his defensive counterpart.

 

So, what would you do with the bigs to develop them using one-on-one situations?  And I've been thinking about this and would be interested in thoughts.

 

I think you have to have some kind of shot clock.  Whether that's an actual clock or just a coach moving his hand to count like a ref, either way, but I think there needs to be a time limit on the offensive player to get a shot off.  Like maybe 5 seconds at the most.

 

I think the offensive player should be rewarded for scoring a basket, but the defensive player should get rewarded for making a stop.  So, what values?  Maybe 2 points for a bucket and 1 point for a stop?  Or 1 point for forcing a bad shot or getting a block or a turnover?

 

Have a coach or a manager enter the ball to the post, and the post guy has to initiate his move with his back to the basket.  In other words, I wouldn't want to see them go out 15 feet, catch the ball and then turn and face the basket and basically try a dribble drive like they're guards.  I'd want to see them post up and score against defense.

 

I suppose you could have the offensive player start out on the block and slap the ball to simulate catching the entry pass and then have 4-5 seconds to get his shot off.

 

If he scores, award him the value of the basket.

If he runs out of time, forces a bad shot, gets blocked or turns it over, award a point to the defender.

If he draws a foul, award 1 point to the offensive player and he goes again.

If he grabs an offensive rebound, he simply retains possession.

Defensive rebound changes the possession and the players switch.

 

If the offensive player has no shot, he can kick it out to avoid awarding a point to the defender (because you don't want to develop a habit of forcing bad shots) but inbounding rules would apply, right?  So, if he doesn't get it kicked out with at least a second left on his "shot clock" it's a turnover and you award the point to the defender.

 

Dean?  Jones?  Is that anything you might do to develop your posts in the off-season?

 

 

When I was coaching college ball post development was easy. College dudes crave reps and competitions, so it was easy to teach and get them to battle against each other. 

 

I haven't had the luxury of having too many effective post players in hs coaching. Had a lot of guys I had to throw down in there and hope they'd survive, but unless you get a kid who owns the post mentality it's really hard to get someone to work on the post skills. Have some young guys coming up I've really been working with, but I'll have to report back to you in a few years to let you know if I have any idea what I'm talking about.

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On 6/27/2017 at 3:47 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Yeah, I think Duby is muy importanto.  He has to be healthy; he has to be in shape; and he has to be developed to where he's not foul prone.  Don't necessarily need him to be able to do much scoring, but he does need to hold down the paint, box out, get rebounds, and get putbacks on the offensive side.  We probably need 15-18 min/game out of Duby.  Any scoring from Duby would be a bonus.

 

Jordy needs to be healthy, in shape, and developed as well.  We might want a little scoring out of Jordy.

 

So what do you do with those guys in the summer so that they're ready to go in the fall?  I've been thinking about this and I'd be curious about @Dean Smith and @basketballjones's thoughts on the matter.

 

So, the real Dean Smith back at North Carolina used to have his guys go one-on-one against each other in practice.  I think that's a great way of developing certain skills.  I think that's especially true in Miles' offense, which depends a lot on one guy beating his defensive counterpart.

 

So, what would you do with the bigs to develop them using one-on-one situations?  And I've been thinking about this and would be interested in thoughts.

 

I think you have to have some kind of shot clock.  Whether that's an actual clock or just a coach moving his hand to count like a ref, either way, but I think there needs to be a time limit on the offensive player to get a shot off.  Like maybe 5 seconds at the most.

 

I think the offensive player should be rewarded for scoring a basket, but the defensive player should get rewarded for making a stop.  So, what values?  Maybe 2 points for a bucket and 1 point for a stop?  Or 1 point for forcing a bad shot or getting a block or a turnover?

 

Have a coach or a manager enter the ball to the post, and the post guy has to initiate his move with his back to the basket.  In other words, I wouldn't want to see them go out 15 feet, catch the ball and then turn and face the basket and basically try a dribble drive like they're guards.  I'd want to see them post up and score against defense.

 

I suppose you could have the offensive player start out on the block and slap the ball to simulate catching the entry pass and then have 4-5 seconds to get his shot off.

 

If he scores, award him the value of the basket.

If he runs out of time, forces a bad shot, gets blocked or turns it over, award a point to the defender.

If he draws a foul, award 1 point to the offensive player and he goes again.

If he grabs an offensive rebound, he simply retains possession.

Defensive rebound changes the possession and the players switch.

 

If the offensive player has no shot, he can kick it out to avoid awarding a point to the defender (because you don't want to develop a habit of forcing bad shots) but inbounding rules would apply, right?  So, if he doesn't get it kicked out with at least a second left on his "shot clock" it's a turnover and you award the point to the defender.

 

Dean?  Jones?  Is that anything you might do to develop your posts in the off-season?

 

 

I had pretty good luck teaching post moves to both posts and non-posts. Kids want to score and when they realize I can get some easy buckets down there, they pay attention. 

 

They dont need post moves they need a post move. I don't consider a drop step a move. Everyone needs to be able to drop step either middle or baseline as soon as they catch it if they feel the D laying on one or the other.  Feel the D laying on your bottom side as you catch, drop step middle. If you can't feel a drop step then do your move whatever it is, if they take that away, you have to know a counter. If that's not there kick it out. Follow the progression, no thinking just doing. Your "move" may not be the same on both sides of the basket but I really liked teaching progressions to have the players reacting and doing as little thinking as possible. 

 

So yes you can have them go 1 v1 in the post and that can be beneficial but you can learn your progression by yourself or I liked what I learned as the spaghetti drill. The post  goes block to block receiving passes while a teammate, coach, or manager uses a hand shield to give them different looks to react to as well as making the finish more difficult.  The key is the one running the hand shield can't just be whacking them randomly. They have to be giving different reads so the post can go through his progression. This does take at least three or four people to make work but after being in this for as little as 30 seconds, their legs can start to feel like spaghetti. If the hand shield isn't focused on giving different reads and it just turns into let's smack the post around the drill can be pretty useless. That's why I liked to be the one running the hand shield at the beginning and then letting other posts as the training went on. Running the hand shield also gave posts time to think about their progression. And yes it can also be used to build stamina and toughness but don't let it turn into a "let's beat up the post" drill. 

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I always thought the up and under (not the reverse layup that many announcer call an up and under) was the best post move.  Especially for under sized post players.  Takes good footwork but if perfected can be very tough to stop and often can draw the foul. 

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