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Program Expectations

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1 minute ago, HF_ said:

 

Oddly enough I think as a whole their numbers/play were a lot better against that tough non-con schedule than they were in conference

 

True.  I think they got demoralized by all the losses, which were due to the tough schedule.  If they hadn't played such a tough schedule, they'd have had a couple more wins under their belts going into conference play and their psyches would have been able to deal better with dropping another game here or there.

 

I wrote a post recently on momentum.  Just the stuff we all already know, but it was a pertinent point of the discussion we were having when I posted it before and I would just reiterate that post here now without typing it again for the sake of brevity and because typing it all over again would be a PITA.

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I tend to agree with you Norm - I do think they took a beating psychologically as the year went on.

 

Maybe the physical talent is there more than I'm giving credit, but Miles and his staff have never found a way to consistently synchronize/maximize the talent and confidence of his teams and individual players.

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15 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Don't count walk-ons.  Redshirting a walk-on isn't terribly meaningful.

 

And Smith and Balham were Collier recruits.

 

I don't remember Bear Jones redshirting; Diaz only did so because admissions said he wasn't eligible for enrolment until he passed a language test, which delayed him for a semester, at which point Doc decided to have him sit the rest of the year.

 

I think Brandon, Alonzo and Toney were a redshirt experiment that Doc decided didn't work out so well.

 

And Ray Gallegos should have been on the list under Sadler.

 

I figured I'd add in the walk-ons depending on the intent, but I agree. Good call on Smith/Balham. Bear had to deal with a foot injury very early into his Freshman year and ended up with a medical redshirt. And yes, good catch on Rayes.

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36 minutes ago, HF_ said:

One has 3 first year players who were major contributors.  One has 3 first year players who were essentially non-factors outside of a few games or plays all year.  

 

I don't mean to veer off topic, but Dimes posted that Watkins was a redshirt freshman.

 

I can't for the life of me remember a time when we we had the depth/luxury to redshirt a somewhat promising guy who just needed to mature a bit.  Anybody remember the last time we had a productive/successful career from a guy who redshirted as a freshman?

 

 

They didn't have a choice whether or not to redshirt Watkins, he wasn't fully qualified academically.

 

The last guys we redshirted as freshmen that were somewhat productive: Diaz (but, he wasn't here that first semester, and he was gone by his fifth year), Brandon Richardson (who was pretty beat up by his fifth year and wasn't that effective), Toney McCray (who missed his sophomore season with an injury anyway so the redshirt was wasted).  Before that it would go back to Conklin, although I'm probably missing someone.

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5 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

I figured I'd add in the walk-ons depending on the intent, but I agree. Good call on Smith/Balham. Bear had to deal with a foot injury very early into his Freshman year and ended up with a medical redshirt. And yes, good catch on Rayes.

Gallegos didn't redshirt as a freshman.

Edited by uneblinstu

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24 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Don't count walk-ons.  Redshirting a walk-on isn't terribly meaningful.

 

And Smith and Balham were Collier recruits.

 

I don't remember Bear Jones redshirting; Diaz only did so because admissions said he wasn't eligible for enrolment until he passed a language test, which delayed him for a semester, at which point Doc decided to have him sit the rest of the year.

 

I think Brandon, Alonzo and Toney were a redshirt experiment that Doc decided didn't work out so well.

 

And Ray Gallegos should have been on the list under Sadler.

Bear Jones played a few games and then sat with an injury.  Gallegos redshirted in his third season.

 

Doc's stated strategy was that he hoped he could beat the other guy's five star talent with fifth year seniors.  Except that injuries piled up on those seniors and they went belly up.

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One thing I could never figure out is the talk in the media (and maybe here, I don't recall for sure) the year we were going into the Big Ten that maybe this conference was a better fit for Doc Sadler's style, since it's more of a coaches' game, more strategy, more experienced teams without the ones and dones, etc.  That made no sense to me, since most everyone was doing about the same thing Doc was, only doing it better and with more talent.

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2 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

I would expect that the exact same conversations here (or with all sorts of programs) are being had at Penn St.

Some of the fans see that Chambers got some local talent to go there.

Some fans see the same old losing and think they need to start over.

 

Pennsylvania with Philly and Pittsburgh certainly has a ton more talent than Nebraska but Penn St is sort of in the middle of nowhere so they sort of have better local talent. I think you could make a very valid argument that Penn St cares the least about basketball than any other school in the conference. 

 

This would seem to fall in line with what they are paying Chambers.  The only thing I could find had his salary at 900K near the end of 2015.  Penn St doesn't really seem to care much for basketball.  Nebraska on the other seems to be trying to make it work. 

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My expectation is to get an administration and a coaching staff to be on the same page and to actually like each other.  Let me explain.

 

Devaney and Cipriano.  They got along fine.  Rumor has it they were drinking buddies, but who cares.  Football was and is king, and before Joe came down with cancer, his teams were trending upward.  1977-78 went 23-8 and won a game in the NIT.  But then, came Moe Iba.

 

Moe's demeanor sucked, his offense boring, he had an affair with Mabel Lee and he couldn't win a game in the Big 8 Tourney to save his life.  (Maybe a couple).  When you hand in your letter of resignation right after you just took NU to their first NCAA Tourney game, relationship with your boss isn't good.

 

Danny.  My favorite coach.  Great recruiter, great fit to be the AntiOsborne, (not a knock on Dr.Tom, Nee was just the opposite, which at the time, was refreshing).  He had no problems with Bob, who hired him, and Bill Byrne, who actually supported him when most of the players walked.  (Pussies...)   But, Byrne, looking at attendance numbers, made a change after 13 years of good basketball.   Thanks, Bill.

 

Barry Collier.  Byrne hires Collier and bolts.  In comes Steve Pederson (the false prophet) and brings Marc Boehm with him.  Instead of letting Collier go, he brings him back for another year and Mr. Butler bolts for safer havens in July and says screw you Nebraska.  So, here comes Doc.

 

I love this guy.  He came into the coaching graveyard, and was always positive.  He did his damndest.  His record so far, is better than our current coach, and he never had the facilities.  Tom didn't hire him, so....

 

Tim Miles.  I'm not going to say anything about him one way or the other. His current boss didn't hire him, so I don't expect him to stay.  That's understandable.  It's the way of this current world.  What we need is an administration and a coaching staff to be here for at least 7 years.  Probably won't happen......

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I would like to see all the Freshman who redshirt and then are significant in the next year at a given school or maybe two.

 

The day of redshirting or stockpiling kids is over in basketball.  

 

Too many schools that you can play for and still make it to A (or THE) next level.

 

Europe has become interesting enough for a lot of kids.  Can make a living and still maybe get the call some day.

 

So, they want to play now and if they don't get or like what happens then they transfer and use the redshirt.

 

Just my $.02

Edited by Silverbacked1

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1 hour ago, Silverbacked1 said:

I would like to see all the Freshman who redshirt and then are significant in the next year at a given school or maybe two.

 

The day of redshirting or stockpiling kids is over in basketball.  

 

Too many schools that you can play for and still make it to A (or THE) next level.

 

Europe has become interesting enough for a lot of kids.  Can make a living and still maybe get the call some day.

 

So, they want to play now and if they don't get or like what happens then they transfer and use the redshirt.

 

Just my $.02

 

Patton redshirted at Creighton.  Probably shouldn't have, but he did.  So that's one @Silverbacked1 :) 

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2 hours ago, cipsucks said:

My expectation is to get an administration and a coaching staff to be on the same page and to actually like each other.  Let me explain.

 

Devaney and Cipriano.  They got along fine.  Rumor has it they were drinking buddies, but who cares.  Football was and is king, and before Joe came down with cancer, his teams were trending upward.  1977-78 went 23-8 and won a game in the NIT.  But then, came Moe Iba.

 

Moe's demeanor sucked, his offense boring, he had an affair with Mabel Lee and he couldn't win a game in the Big 8 Tourney to save his life.  (Maybe a couple).  When you hand in your letter of resignation right after you just took NU to their first NCAA Tourney game, relationship with your boss isn't good.

 

Danny.  My favorite coach.  Great recruiter, great fit to be the AntiOsborne, (not a knock on Dr.Tom, Nee was just the opposite, which at the time, was refreshing).  He had no problems with Bob, who hired him, and Bill Byrne, who actually supported him when most of the players walked.  (Pussies...)   But, Byrne, looking at attendance numbers, made a change after 13 years of good basketball.   Thanks, Bill.

 

Barry Collier.  Byrne hires Collier and bolts.  In comes Steve Pederson (the false prophet) and brings Marc Boehm with him.  Instead of letting Collier go, he brings him back for another year and Mr. Butler bolts for safer havens in July and says screw you Nebraska.  So, here comes Doc.

 

I love this guy.  He came into the coaching graveyard, and was always positive.  He did his damndest.  His record so far, is better than our current coach, and he never had the facilities.  Tom didn't hire him, so....

 

Tim Miles.  I'm not going to say anything about him one way or the other. His current boss didn't hire him, so I don't expect him to stay.  That's understandable.  It's the way of this current world.  What we need is an administration and a coaching staff to be here for at least 7 years.  Probably won't happen......

I read where a player walked into Miles office to complain about playing in the BIG 10 tourny and was told to get out. Wonder what SE thought about that?

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/after-kicking-a-player-out-of-his-office-tim-miles/article_87b1b372-0373-11e7-910d-3f31f2e7fe09.html

Edited by Bugeaters1

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10 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

I read where a player walked into Miles office to complain about playing in the BIG 10 tourny and was told to get out. Wonder what SE thought about that?

 

Almost everyone reported it because Miles told the story during his presser.

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10 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

I read where a player walked into Miles office to complain about playing in the BIG 10 tourny and was told to get out. Wonder what SE thought about that?

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/after-kicking-a-player-out-of-his-office-tim-miles/article_87b1b372-0373-11e7-910d-3f31f2e7fe09.html

In my humble opinion you may be taking the story a bit out of context.  One word can make a big difference in the interpretation as to what occurred.  I do not believe the player "complained" about playing in the Big Ten tournament.  Rather, he told the coach that the Huskers didn't "deserve" to play in the tournament.

 

The player could have had the best intentions.  He could have been embarrassed or frustrated or confused or upset about how the team was playing.  His intent could have been that the team simply was playing like crap...which is very true.  Coach on the other hand is thinking that the past is the past and the focus is on what needed to be done in order to win at Penn State.  He may have wanted the team to forget about how we were playing and focus on how we can play.

 

Bottom line is that both player and coach may have had the same focus, but a different approach on getting to the goal.  But instead of talking about how they can be on the same page, the coach decided to teach a life lesson.

 

Again, this is simply an opinion.

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27 minutes ago, huskercwg said:

In my humble opinion you may be taking the story a bit out of context.  One word can make a big difference in the interpretation as to what occurred.  I do not believe the player "complained" about playing in the Big Ten tournament.  Rather, he told the coach that the Huskers didn't "deserve" to play in the tournament.

 

The player could have had the best intentions.  He could have been embarrassed or frustrated or confused or upset about how the team was playing.  His intent could have been that the team simply was playing like crap...which is very true.  Coach on the other hand is thinking that the past is the past and the focus is on what needed to be done in order to win at Penn State.  He may have wanted the team to forget about how we were playing and focus on how we can play.

 

Bottom line is that both player and coach may have had the same focus, but a different approach on getting to the goal.  But instead of talking about how they can be on the same page, the coach decided to teach a life lesson.

 

Again, this is simply an opinion.

I would agree, I should have used the words didn't deserve to play.

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The Big Ten is probably going to average 7 to 7.5 teams in the tournament over a ten year span. So, for us to get in, pretty much means we have to knock somebody else out.  Here's the number of NCAA Tournament appearances by Big Ten teams over the last 30 years, broken up into ten year intervals.

 

  2008-17 1998-07 1988-97
Michigan State 10 10 5
Wisconsin 10 9 2
Indiana 5 8 10
Purdue 8 5 8
Illinois 3 9 7
Maryland 5 8 4
Michigan 7 1 8
Iowa 3 4 7
Ohio State 7 2 3
Minnesota 4 2 5
Nebraska 1 1 4
Penn State 1 1 2
Rutgers 0 0 2
Northwestern 1 0 0

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Almost everyone reported it because Miles told the story during his presser.

Yesterday was the first I had heard about. But I have not been as much attention to things as I prolly should have. Been busy with life.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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21 hours ago, 49r said:

 

But Miles doesn't get the same consideration by so many...why?

I don't want to speak for them but here are some potential reasons.  

 

1.   We have extreme high end facilities and fan support.  Penn St not in same stratosphere.  

 

2.  Our players haven't developed at the rate of many programs.  

 

3.   Our teams get worse throughout every season since his right hand man departed.  Downright given up at times.  

 

4.  For those that believe in analytics, we are doing it the exact opposite from how we should be.  You want to be great at three pointers and shoot many.  We are terrible at them.  One of the worst in the nation.  You want to prevent threes going in at high percentage and in bulk.  We are certainly terrible at percentage.  Among the worst in the nation.

 

5.  We don't play a particularly exciting brand of basketball.  Have heard many people say that we might as well be fun to watch if we are going to be bad.  

 

6.  The substitution patterns are mind boggling at times.  As I called out in the tourney loss after coming back to tie the game late in first half,  why is he subbing here?   Predictably,  8-0 run immediately followed.  

 

7.  He doesn't seem to be able to hire good x and o assistants since smith left.  It has exposed his lack of x and o coaching ability.  Many would argue the molinari hire has really hurt our x and o production.

 

8.  Lack of ability to think outside the box.  Cost us Ohio st game for example and things spiraled out of control after that.  No creativity in finding any offense at all.   

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1 hour ago, royalfan said:

I don't want to speak for them but here are some potential reasons.  

 

1.   We have extreme high end facilities and fan support.  Penn St not in same stratosphere.  

 

2.  Our players haven't developed at the rate of many programs.  

 

3.   Our teams get worse throughout every season since his right hand man departed.  Downright given up at times.  

 

4.  For those that believe in analytics, we are doing it the exact opposite from how we should be.  You want to be great at three pointers and shoot many.  We are terrible at them.  One of the worst in the nation.  You want to prevent threes going in at high percentage and in bulk.  We are certainly terrible at percentage.  Among the worst in the nation.

 

5.  We don't play a particularly exciting brand of basketball.  Have heard many people say that we might as well be fun to watch if we are going to be bad.  

 

6.  The substitution patterns are mind boggling at times.  As I called out in the tourney loss after coming back to tie the game late in first half,  why is he subbing here?   Predictably,  8-0 run immediately followed.  

 

7.  He doesn't seem to be able to hire good x and o assistants since smith left.  It has exposed his lack of x and o coaching ability.  Many would argue the molinari hire has really hurt our x and o production.

 

8.  Lack of ability to think outside the box.  Cost us Ohio st game for example and things spiraled out of control after that.  No creativity in finding any offense at all.   

 

But other than #1, Pat Chambers excels in these areas then...is that what you're implying?

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10 hours ago, 49r said:

 

But other than #1, Pat Chambers excels in these areas then...is that what you're implying?

No.  I didn't even mention Chambers name, let alone imply anything regarding Chambers.   As for my opinion if you want it, I am not an extremely close follower of Chambers or Penn St. hoops, but I don't think he is excellent at any of these.  Here is my best effort at comparing the two.   I do think he develops talent a little better than Miles.  I don't think his teams get worse as often throughout the year as Miles have but they have been so bad it may be hard to tell.  I don't think Penn St. is near as bad at shooting or defending the three, but I don't think they are very good at either.  More proof losing programs tend to suck at this.  They play a far more uptempo game than we do.  I don't necessarily deem that to be more exciting but most people do.  I don't think he is much better than Miles at X and O.  He probably doesn't think outside the box much better either. 

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20 minutes ago, royalfan said:

They play a far more uptempo game than we do

 

21 minutes ago, royalfan said:

He probably doesn't think outside the box much better either. 

 

Just wanted to point out that this year's team and his 2009-10 Boston U team are the only ones that have played this fast under Chambers. You don't necessarily see coaches changing their style that much.

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