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1 minute ago, Blindcheck said:

I have never been fond of running set plays...I prefer running an motion offense where players read the defense and get themselves in position.

This is what Miles ran every step along the way before NU. He initially said he was gonna do that here, too, but it's never taken hold.

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3 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

The main difference is Michigan has 6 seniors on their roster.

 

Two of those six are walk-ons, another (Robinson) is listed as a senior by Michigan but is a junior in eligibility and will be back, and another (Donnal) is a redshirt junior listed as a senior who is graduating but not given the option to come back on scholarship (like Biefeldt a couple years ago).  When was the last time we would have the luxury to tell a guy like Donnal, yeah, no thanks, we don't want you back? I'm not saying Donnal is great, clearly he is not, but he does a lot of good things.

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Dirk is my favorite local sports writer because he's the best pure writer of the bunch.  I've disagreed with him many times, but he typically makes an argument and defends it soundly in addition to a creative and articulate approach.  

 

He clearly doesn't understand the raw talent of Morrow, who will be a 2nd team all-conference power forward if we play him at the damned 4 next to Jordy next year.  He's right about Jacobson and Taylor--both good role players.  

 

Other than that, I thought the article was pretty spot on and really thoughtful.  

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2 hours ago, brfrad said:

Watching Michigan and Purdue.  I feel we have every bit as much talent as these teams.  The difference is these 2 teams have guys that can hit shots and a lock down defender to take away the opponent's player one on one. 

 

Those things are part of being talented though, which is why they are more talented to my eyes.  Shooting is an extremely important part of basketball talent. 

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1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

It's just a set play. We could run more set plays. I would like to see a secondary break like UNC runs into motion and then something Calipari does (I think I've mentioned it before) is go into your set play with 12 or so seconds left. If you run your play first and get nothing, most of the time you end up with a 1 v 1 at the end of the shot clock. Run the secondary into motion to keep the pressure on and then run the set play at the end of the shot clock to increase your chance at a higher percentage shot. The difficulty with this concept is you don't know where everyone is going to end up when you run motion, so every player needs to be able to run every play from every position. 

 

Yes, that's true, you have mentioned that before about going into a set play when the clock is running down.  I do recall seeing you make that point, which I think is a good one.

 

And, yes, this was clearly a set play.  You can see that because Schilling gets triggered to sprint to his spot when McQuaid makes that pass to Harris at the top of the key.  That wasn't really my point, though.  I'm not really expressing a preference for set plays.  My point was more that when you watch Michigan State, for example, there's more people doing stuff to create the shot opportunities and get their teammates open.  In the case I described above, it's very scripted (and it worked.)  But it doesn't have to be scripted to have the other 4 guys trying to create disruption in the defense in order to create open shot opportunities. 

 

Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but Miles uses more of a dribble-drive motion offense, which relies a lot on having a couple of guys who can beat their defender one-on-one.  But you also need capable shooters in the corners to help spread the floor and sort of take away the help.  Our problem right now is we don't have shooters to space the floor.  We've been putting Jack and Isaiah and sometimes Evan in the corners, which means we sometimes have guys shooting 20-24% from three out there as our designated shooters.  So, this offense is designed to get dribble penetration that results in either getting to the rim or an opportunity to kick to the shooter in the corner or on the wing (or dish to the big on the weak side).  But how many times have you seen our shooters get that kick out pass and not take the shot?

 

It makes us very one dimensional.  It means defenses have less to scheme against.  We get a big to come out from the paint and set a ball screen but we rarely run any sort of pick-and-roll action or pick-and-pop action.  I don't know, maybe I just don't understand enough about the dribble drive motion scheme, but I feel like our offense is sometimes too simplistic and too reliant on guards who are able to penetrate and finish.  And when you don't have the shooters to spread the floor, you wind up losing to Penn State in the conference tourney.

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2 hours ago, Blindcheck said:

I have never been fond of running set plays...I prefer running an motion offense where players read the defense and get themselves in position.

 

Well, you can still primarily run motion but have set plays for different situations, like your first offensive set off the opening tip or when you have to inbound the ball with only 5 seconds on the shot clock or when you have a 1 point lead with 50 seconds left and you want to drain the shot clock but definitely come away with a bucket.

 

But one of the things I wanted to say to Dean was that I feel like some of the principles of basketball that make those set plays work also apply to your unscripted motion offenses.  The guys who don't have the ball still have jobs to do, they still need to make good cuts and set good screens and make good passes, etc.

 

Maybe Dean could give us a little intro to the principles of the dribble drive motion so that it makes a little more sense to the people who watch it and think it doesn't look very sophisticated.

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22 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Well, you can still primarily run motion but have set plays for different situations, like your first offensive set off the opening tip or when you have to inbound the ball with only 5 seconds on the shot clock or when you have a 1 point lead with 50 seconds left and you want to drain the shot clock but definitely come away with a bucket.

 

But one of the things I wanted to say to Dean was that I feel like some of the principles of basketball that make those set plays work also apply to your unscripted motion offenses.  The guys who don't have the ball still have jobs to do, they still need to make good cuts and set good screens and make good passes, etc.

 

Maybe Dean could give us a little intro to the principles of the dribble drive motion so that it makes a little more sense to the people who watch it and think it doesn't look very sophisticated.

I probably should have stated that I prefer having the basis of the offense being a motion type offense...rather than set plays.

 

There is a time and a place for each.

 

In the little coaching I have done...I have been predominantly a motion offense guy, but have had some teams that just didn't get it...and had to devise plays to get open shots.

 

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3 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Yes, that's true, you have mentioned that before about going into a set play when the clock is running down.  I do recall seeing you make that point, which I think is a good one.

 

And, yes, this was clearly a set play.  You can see that because Schilling gets triggered to sprint to his spot when McQuaid makes that pass to Harris at the top of the key.  That wasn't really my point, though.  I'm not really expressing a preference for set plays.  My point was more that when you watch Michigan State, for example, there's more people doing stuff to create the shot opportunities and get their teammates open.  In the case I described above, it's very scripted (and it worked.)  But it doesn't have to be scripted to have the other 4 guys trying to create disruption in the defense in order to create open shot opportunities. 

 

Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but Miles uses more of a dribble-drive motion offense, which relies a lot on having a couple of guys who can beat their defender one-on-one.  But you also need capable shooters in the corners to help spread the floor and sort of take away the help.  Our problem right now is we don't have shooters to space the floor.  We've been putting Jack and Isaiah and sometimes Evan in the corners, which means we sometimes have guys shooting 20-24% from three out there as our designated shooters.  So, this offense is designed to get dribble penetration that results in either getting to the rim or an opportunity to kick to the shooter in the corner or on the wing (or dish to the big on the weak side).  But how many times have you seen our shooters get that kick out pass and not take the shot?

 

It makes us very one dimensional.  It means defenses have less to scheme against.  We get a big to come out from the paint and set a ball screen but we rarely run any sort of pick-and-roll action or pick-and-pop action.  I don't know, maybe I just don't understand enough about the dribble drive motion scheme, but I feel like our offense is sometimes too simplistic and too reliant on guards who are able to penetrate and finish.  And when you don't have the shooters to spread the floor, you wind up losing to Penn State in the conference tourney.

Also think that if we did end up too gassed at the end of the year, this contributed to it.  Especially in Webster's case.  Grueling task to run our offense against a brick wall over and over again. 

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2 hours ago, huskercwg said:

Poor attempt to reference Sports Talk radio.

IMO, Miles has been treated quite well on sports talk radio. 

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IMO, Miles has been treated quite well on sports talk radio. 

I would say from the outside he has been a lot like TO, where what he says is not questions ed.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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Effective teams that dribble penetrate and kick out to shooters have passes made accurately so that the receiver can shoot the ball quickly.

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11 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

I don't know if Miles has the cajones to do it, and they don't have the shooters right now, but I'd love to see NU transition to the Grinnell College model. I'm dead serious about that, too.

I wouldn't mind miles in the offseason going to Houston and seeing dantoni offense and taking look at grinnell, I think MJ can be. 35% shooter from 3pt, he's a slight tweak away,I think we could possibly have enough 3 pt shooters in addition to Taylor or ROBY going downhill and slashing  or kicking out. I stated it earlier I'm dead serious about Roby at the point 

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:18 PM, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Michigan?  In terms of ability, at this very moment.

D.J. Wilson > Ed Morrow

Moritz Wagner >> Michael Jacobson

Zac Irvin = Tai Webster

Muhammed-Ali Abdur-Rahmann >> Evan Taylor

Derrick Walton > Evan Taylor

Mark Donnal = Jordy Tshimanga

Duncan Robinson >> Jack McVeigh

Roby, Horne = Michigan's four freshmen who barely played (2 4-stars, 2 3-stars).

 

Michigan has a roster better than any we've had here except maybe once or twice, a lot of size, with some pretty good athletes, great senior guards, tons of experience, outstanding shooters with five guys shooting over 40% from 3 (which is more than NU over the last 5 years), and a great coach who has been to a final four and a couple final eights. And Michigan is a bubble team that finished in a four way tie for fifth in a conference that won't have a top 4 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

 

At this level a lot of things have to go right to just be mediocre.

 

At this moment, they are playing the best of any team in the Big 10.  Are you judging them based on the way our team and their team were playing at the end of the season, or the way each players' ability.

 

DJ Wilson, in his 1st 2 years, he played in 31 games, avg. 5.9 MPG, 2.3 PPG,0.8 RPG, shot 46 % from the floor, 32 % from 3

Morrow, in his 1st 2 years, played in 54 games, avg. 18.0 MPG, 6.4 PPG, 5.2 RPG, shot 55 % from the floor, has not attempted a 3.

 

These 2 have a different game.  I would almost go with MJ and Wilson as a comparison.  Morrow is a better rebounder, and Wilson is a better shooter. 

 

Wagner is better than Jacobson

Irvin and Tai are the same

Abdur-Rahmann is better than Taylor

Walton right now is better than Watson, but I think Watson will eventually be just as good as Walton

Donnal and Jordy right now are equal.  I do think Jordy will be a great interior guy.  Donnal is a senior, while Jordy is a freshmen.

Robinson is not that much better than Jack, if he even is.  Jack was able to get something off the dribble, while Robinson struggles to score, besides his shooting from outside. 

 

What I have highlighted is the difference in the 2 teams.  I think with a Junior, and 2 Senior guards next year, I expect this team to be much better.  If it is not, then a change will need to be made. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, swmckewon said:

IMO, Miles has been treated quite well on sports talk radio. 

I also thought Danny was treated well until the player walk out and the Rutgers incident. 

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2 hours ago, huskercwg said:

I also thought Danny was treated well until the player walk out and the Rutgers incident. 

Agreed.

 

he was winning more than miles though.

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Whatever offense is ran, almost every trip down the court, the ball needs to get in the paint.  Whether that is driving or post feeds.  If the ball gets in the lane, we can take a shot, or pass the ball to an open 3 point shooter.

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8 hours ago, brfrad said:

At this moment, they are playing the best of any team in the Big 10.  Are you judging them based on the way our team and their team were playing at the end of the season, or the way each players' ability.

 

DJ Wilson, in his 1st 2 years, he played in 31 games, avg. 5.9 MPG, 2.3 PPG,0.8 RPG, shot 46 % from the floor, 32 % from 3

Morrow, in his 1st 2 years, played in 54 games, avg. 18.0 MPG, 6.4 PPG, 5.2 RPG, shot 55 % from the floor, has not attempted a 3.

 

These 2 have a different game.  I would almost go with MJ and Wilson as a comparison.  Morrow is a better rebounder, and Wilson is a better shooter. 

 

Wagner is better than Jacobson

Irvin and Tai are the same

Abdur-Rahmann is better than Taylor

Walton right now is better than Watson, but I think Watson will eventually be just as good as Walton

Donnal and Jordy right now are equal.  I do think Jordy will be a great interior guy.  Donnal is a senior, while Jordy is a freshmen.

Robinson is not that much better than Jack, if he even is.  Jack was able to get something off the dribble, while Robinson struggles to score, besides his shooting from outside. 

 

What I have highlighted is the difference in the 2 teams.  I think with a Junior, and 2 Senior guards next year, I expect this team to be much better.  If it is not, then a change will need to be made. 

 

 

I'd agree with just about all of that. One thing I wouldn't put too much stock in is Wilson's numbers his first two years, because Michigan doesn't play a lot of freshmen unless they end up being lottery picks, and Wilson was in the doghouse if I remember correctly.  I'd give Wilson an edge because he is far more skilled offensively while being 3 inches taller. Wilson is shooting 37% from 3 (4% higher than Nebraska's second-best shooter) and had 45 assists vs 35 turnovers so far vs. Ed, who might have hit a couple 12 footers this year and had 8 assists vs 47 turnovers.  Offensively, it's not close. Hopefully Ed can improve those things because he's not even scratching the surface of what he can be.

 

I'd give the edge to Robinson so far since he shot 45% from 3 last year, 43% this year.  If Jack is shooting 43% from 3 next year we'll be a much better team.

 

The Waston-Walton comparison is an interesting one.  Here are there sophomore averages.

Watson Jr.   13.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 41.7 FG%, 39.7 3P%, 81.0 FT%
Walton Jr.    10.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.2 spg, 34.6 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 83.3 FT%

Walton's team had more balance on offense, with LaVert and Irvin both averaging over 14 before Irvin and Walton went down with injuries at about the same time.   Glynn could end up being as good, or better, but: he looks like he's weighing in at about 160 lbs right now, and his assist numbers so far haven't been great. Maybe that's a function of our shooters and offensive scheme and execution not being good.

                                   
                                 
 

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Posted (edited)

On 3/10/2017 at 4:57 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Well, you can still primarily run motion but have set plays for different situations, like your first offensive set off the opening tip or when you have to inbound the ball with only 5 seconds on the shot clock or when you have a 1 point lead with 50 seconds left and you want to drain the shot clock but definitely come away with a bucket.

 

But one of the things I wanted to say to Dean was that I feel like some of the principles of basketball that make those set plays work also apply to your unscripted motion offenses.  The guys who don't have the ball still have jobs to do, they still need to make good cuts and set good screens and make good passes, etc.

 

Maybe Dean could give us a little intro to the principles of the dribble drive motion so that it makes a little more sense to the people who watch it and think it doesn't look very sophisticated.

I found this to be pretty informative.  Granted it's over an hour, but despite that I think it only scratches the surface on the whole dribble drive concept.  My uneducated eye was telling me that our offense was too often just a bunch of individuals going one on one.  I need to watch more examples, but I can appreciate what this style of offense is trying to do.  It is an attacking style, reliant on spacing, and its efficiency relies on putting your players into the best position to make the highest possible percentage of baskets, either close to the rim, or at the free throw line.  Even though often a play ends with a player going one on one, it really is a team effort, with the rest of the team cutting, setting screens, and posting.  You hear the coach (who invented the dribble drive motion) say a lot of the things we've heard from Miles before.  Now this coach never covered on ball screens in this video which Miles uses a lot, and I wonder if that is a wrinkle he added from other offensive styles. 

 

Edited by hal9000

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Excellent video, Hal.  Should probably be required watching for anyone who wants to critique our offense.  Helps you understand why Michael Jacobson gets the playing time he gets.  And you maybe see where Miles picked up the lingo about liking the three but loving the rim.

 

 You can also see why bad officiating hurt us especially.  The offense is supposed to generate free throw opportunities so it penalizes us when Tai gets bumped driving to the hoop and there's no call.  And you can also see why losing our best shooter to the transfer market was so costly.

 

Great video.  Thanks Hal.

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17 hours ago, hal9000 said:

I found this to be pretty informative.  Granted it's over an hour, but despite that I think it only scratches the surface on the whole dribble drive concept.  My uneducated eye was telling me that our offense was too often just a bunch of individuals going one on one.  I need to watch more examples, but I can appreciate what this style of offense is trying to do.  It is an attacking style, reliant on spacing, and its efficiency relies on putting your players into the best position to make the highest possible percentage of baskets, either close to the rim, or at the free throw line.  Even though often a play ends with a player going one on one, it really is a team effort, with the rest of the team cutting, setting screens, and posting.  You hear the coach (who invented the dribble drive motion) say a lot of the things we've heard from Miles before.  Now this coach never covered on ball screens in this video which Miles uses a lot, and I wonder if that is a wrinkle he added from other offensive styles. 

 

I'm not gonna go back through my post history to prove this but I've been saying for years that our offensive transition lanes are miserable, our transition attack is terrible, our dribble drive rules/reactions are terrible, and our spacing is screwy. This video highlights how I feel transition should be played and how reactions to guys attacks should shake out. You don't have to be a pure dribble drive motion offense to react and attack this way. But the fundamentals of this in transition and early offense are incredibly solid.

 

At the beginning of the year I believe I even made a post how it looked like we had figured a lot of these things out and I was incredibly encouraged. UCLA/Dayton games looked good in these regards. Then it just disappeared without a trace.... 

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On 3/10/2017 at 2:17 PM, brfrad said:

I think Taylor has a place on this team.  He needs to be a lock down defender, who can hit shots consistently from 15 + feet, to make teams at least guard him.  It's somebody every team needs.

 

Taylor filled a role very well last season. Imagine if NU didn't have him last year.... and, I have felt -- along with several others -- that NU needs another PG on the roster that is quick and can create. Glynn looked beaten down the second half of the season; and the numbers bear it out, too.

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Posted (edited)

56 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Taylor filled a role very well last season. Imagine if NU didn't have him last year.... and, I have felt -- along with several others -- that NU needs another PG on the roster that is quick and can create. Glynn looked beaten down the second half of the season; and the numbers bear it out, too.

Evan Taylor is a fantastic player. I think it actually came as a surprise to everyone (staff included) that he was as capable as he showed. I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't seen the best Evan has to provide. 

 

The guy who I'm worried about as far as role development and position is Jacobsen. If you watch our loses or poor offensive showings you'll notice he's the clog. He's in the high post half the time - which is the worst place to be against man to man defense when your offense is dribble drive oriented, if you also have someone in the low post. It's as if the staff told him during his weak 3pt shooting that he needed to float around in his range - which is poor spacing when Tai/Glynn/Taylor are trying to drive.

 

If no one is going to guard him on the perimeter - the answer is not to move him in and get in the way - it's to teach him how to immediately swing the ball and sprint into his ball screens. Or to attack at his partners man with a dribble hand off. Because if he's not being guarded on the perimeter, it means he's naked as he goes to ball screen, which means the guard can turn the corner easier and attack the big. 

 

Many of Jacobsen's drives were "probes," which I hate. He often drives at about 60% into gaps to see if he can create for someone else or manage to hang his way to the rim. Good teams just stayed in front of him and offered no help to the guy guarding him. Think back - how many times did you see him drive to the middle near the free throw line, jump stop, and have to just throw it back out to someone who got no advantage out of it? 

 

If he's going to be a threat, his drives can't be probes - they have to be purposeful. Either one move, go by, and get to the rim - or attack around the perimeter right at teammates defenders, not somewhere in between those two things. 

Edited by basketballjones

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27 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Evan Taylor is a fantastic player. I think it actually came as a surprise to everyone (staff included) that he was as capable as he showed. I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't seen the best Evan has to provide. 

 

 

Wasn't a surprise to me. Just saying, I called it. ;)

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1 hour ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Wasn't a surprise to me. Just saying, I called it. ;)

I certainly did not. I was worried this was a Doc Sadler-esque late add like "Mike Smith" or someone along those lines. My god, that name takes me back....

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