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Fire Miles Talk (complete BS)

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12 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Daum has been mentioned as a pro prospect, as is Patton. Bradley's defense and size wouldn't be good enough here. His shooting would, though.

 

Yeah, I think it would be hard for Nebraska to turn down anyone shooting 40% from 3-pt right now.

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18 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

So it's sounding maybe something like this:

 

Starters:
Tra-Deon Hollins (senior)
Jalen Bradley (senior)
Khyri Thomas (sophomore)
Mike Daum (sophomore)
Justin Patton (RS Frosh)

 

Off the bench:
Treshawn Thurman (Junior)
Akoy Agau (Junior)

Webster is the best player on the court

 

I would have these as my starters:

 

Webster

Watson

Thomas

Morrow

Daum

 

In the rotation:

 

Patton

Agau

Bradley

Roby

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13 hours ago, brfrad said:

Webster is the best player on the court

 

I would have these as my starters:

 

Webster

Watson

Thomas

Morrow

Daum

 

In the rotation:

 

Patton

Agau

Bradley

Roby

 

That lineup would finish at the very least 4th in the Big Ten this year. After watching that game Sunday, a man can dream for at least a couple more hours before the game tonight and this discussion ends.

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I won't fault Miles individually on any of those guys...but the fact that we have Fuller and McVeigh on scholarship on top of an empty scholarship or two every year and guys like Daum, Patton, Hollins, Agau, Bradley, Thomas, Thurman are all out there and not one of them ever made it here is nothing but incredibly frustrating.

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A kid from Crete (closer to Lincoln than Wilbur, where Dana Altman is from) by the name of Quentin Neujahr was not offered a scholarship to play football for Tom Osborne.

 

So, he went to Kansas State and became an All-American for Bill Snyder instead.

 

Jay Novacek from Gothenburg went to Wyoming.  Became an All-American and went to 5 pro-bowls.

 

What does that have to do with anything?  Well, nobody went around bellyaching about us missing on the kid from Gothenburg or the kid from Crete that literally nobody expected to pan out as well as they did.   You simply cannot Monday-morning QB the recruiting process like that.

 

It's a different thing if it's Ty Goode who was a Parade All-American at Lincoln Southeast who went on to Notre Dame.  But he's more like Akoy Agau (a lot like Akoy, actually) in that we really did try to recruit him.

 

But show me a guy who we simply failed to recruit when it was obvious the kid was good enough to play here and it was inexplicable that we passed on him. 

 

I don't think any of the names I've seen qualify in that department.  In fact, the closest I can think of where there was a kid, not from here but who at least had connections to this place, was Lance Jeter's cousin Sheldon who went to Vandy and then transferred to Pitt.  That wasn't Monday-morning Quarterbacking; that was Norm Peterson beating a drum that people around here got tired of hearing me beat, asking "Why aren't we offering this kid?"

 

Show me a single post, prior to any of these Nebraska kids committing elsewhere, where ANYONE questioned why we didn't offer them.

 

In fact, I remember discussions about Bradley where uneblinstu said he liked him for his shooting and others quite strongly said he wasn't worthy of anything more than a walk-on spot.  Nustudent, just for example, used to scoff at the idea of Nebraska recruits being any good and generally over-rated because of the lack of competition here (Matt Hill was who I think we were talking about in particular.)  I think he used to say that a 4-star Nebraska kid would be 3-stars if they were from anywhere else, or words to that effect.

 

So, again, show me a single post, prior to any of these Nebraska kids committing elsewhere, where ANYONE questioned why we didn't offer them.

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If Nebraska basketball was top-5 winningest program of all time and winning conference and national championships, then I honestly wouldn't care if Nebrasketball ever recruited a single player from this state, because that means you are signing equal or greater talent from somewhere else.

 

The problem is when those instate players  are better than the out of state players you have.

 

For example, right now I'm watching Wichita St vs SDSU. Daum clearly looks to be a better shooter than McVeigh and he is 6'9" 250 lbs. Nebraska would be better off having a player like Daum starting at the 3 spot to knock down 3s, rather than McVeigh. Or Daum could start at the 5-spot next to Morrow. To me, Daum is clearly more valuable at the 5 spot than Jacobson. Plus, when he shoots 3s, he's actually a threat to make them consistently. That is not the case with Jacobson.

 

Another example would be Patton. He would clearly be starting at the 5-spot for Nebraska.

 

And guys like Tra-Deon Hollins, Jalen Bradley, and Khyri Thomas would all 3 be more valuable on Nebraska's roster than Fuller or McVeigh.

 

To me, the issue isn't missing out on instate talent. The issue is missing out on instate talent that is better than the out of state talent that you sign instead.

Edited by Nebrasketballer

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19 minutes ago, TimSmiles said:

I can assure you that if we had turned down ed morrow to sign mike daum, this board would have lost its mind.

 

True. But no one is saying that Nebraska should have taken him over Morrow. That's a straw man argument.

 

In that same class Nebraska signed Bakari Evelyn, Michael Jacobson, and Jack McVeigh. Daum would be more valuable to this team than all 3 of those players.

 

And when talking about the other instate players that I have mentioned, Miles decided on the self-imposed sanctions of 1 or more scholarships, rather than signing one of those players.

 

And comparing UNC and Duke to Nebraska is a little ridiculous. Those schools, while maybe missing out on a quality instate prospect, are still recruiting/performing at an elite level. They are not likely on their way to a 3rd consecutive sub-.500 season.

Edited by Nebrasketballer

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3 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

 

True. But no one is saying that Nebraska should have taken him over Morrow. That's a straw man argument.

 

In that same class Nebraska signed Bakari Evelyn, Michael Jacobson, and Jack McVeigh. Daum would be more valuable to this team than all 3 of those players.

 

And when talking about the other instate players that I have mentioned, Miles decided on the self-imposed sanctions of 1 or more scholarships, rather than signing one of those players.

daum- the south dakota coaches weren't sure daum would be able to play a single minute for them when he arrived on campus. it is a freak scenario that he has turned into an nba prospect.

 

akoy- had no intention of staying in nebraska. wanted to be in the spotlight like White is trying to do at syracuse.

 

patton and thomas- both omaha guys that creighton jumped on before us. tough to steal guys from omaha right now when creighton is a top 25 team

 

hollins/bradley- i'd rather have webster and watson

 

thurman- pretty sure he had grade issues so we didn't offer.

 

i don't think miles could have done a whole lot different as far as in state players go.

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, TimSmiles said:

daum- the south dakota coaches weren't sure daum would be able to play a single minute for them when he arrived on campus. it is a freak scenario that he has turned into an nba prospect.

 

Odd. I didn't know schools recruit and waste scholarships players that they don't think can play a single minute.

 

 

 

Quote

patton and thomas- both omaha guys that creighton jumped on before us. tough to steal guys from omaha right now when creighton is a top 25 team

 

Creighton was a top-25 team when they signed Patton and Thomas? I'm pretty sure the season that they committed to Creighton, the Bluejays were 14-19.

 

 

 

Quote

 

hollins/bradley- i'd rather have webster and watson

 

Again, this is a straw man argument. No one is saying Nebraska should have taken any of these instate prospects over players like Webster, Morrow, or Watson.

 

But in the class with Morrow/Watson, Nebraska also signed Bakari Evelyn, Michael Jacobson, and Jack McVeigh.

 

In Webster's class, Nebraska also signed Nate Hawkins and Nick Fuller.

 

And in the other recruiting classes, Miles has chosen the self-imposed scholarship sanctions of 1-2 scholarships per year. I think there are obvious examples from this group of instate players that would have been more valuable than these players and/or open scholarships.

 

 

Quote

i don't think miles could have done a whole lot different as far as in state players go.

 

 

I disagree.

Edited by Nebrasketballer

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12 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

So, again, show me a single post, prior to any of these Nebraska kids committing elsewhere, where ANYONE questioned why we didn't offer them.

That's an odd way to look at it: whether the board wants to offer. My question would be does the staff put the effort into evaluating the kids around here? It doesn't seem like it. And I don't place the blame totally on Miles, because when he took the job he probably heard any number of people tell him, "There's no talent in Nebraska." He was stepping up to a big-level program and it was natural that he looked nationally. It's just speculation, but I think he got burned on Patton and Thomas and offered Arop too quickly to save face.

 

My issue is with the recruiting philosophy here. We really haven't signed Nebraska kids since Collier (except Biggs from JC), and yet Nebraska kids have succeeded elsewhere. There are two kids playing right now who are getting mentioned as NBA prospects and I'm not sure the staff had any kind of relationship with either. While I think Brady Heiman could develop into a legit college big man, he only has low offers now and I think it's far more likely that some other P5 "discovers" him. And if I say I would offer, what's that worth other than to earn an up or down arrow?

 

 

Edited by Chuck Taylor

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9 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

daum- the south dakota coaches weren't sure daum would be able to play a single minute for them when he arrived on campus. it is a freak scenario that he has turned into an nba prospect.

 

akoy- had no intention of staying in nebraska. wanted to be in the spotlight like White is trying to do at syracuse.

 

patton and thomas- both omaha guys that creighton jumped on before us. tough to steal guys from omaha right now when creighton is a top 25 team

 

hollins/bradley- i'd rather have webster and watson

 

thurman- pretty sure he had grade issues so we didn't offer.

 

i don't think miles could have done a whole lot different as far as in state players go.

 

 

 

 

And Creighton was in on Patton and Thomas before Nebraska...because????? Had Nebraska offered first would they be wearing red? Who knows..they may still have ended up at Creighton but the fact that the staff simply passed on them or did not identify them as high major talent is a bit concerning.  BTW, I would take any of the above players over Miles not utilizing a scholarship year after year.  Having that 13th scholarship open may come in handy at some point where we sign a mid year transfer but that's looking unlikely again this year. 

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10 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

yea. and steph curry went to davidson without being recruited by hometown schools like UNC or Duke

 

i can assure you that if we had turned down ed morrow to sign mike daum, this board would have lost its mind.

I can assure you that wouldn't have happened as Morrow and Daum are in different classes. It would have been Daum over Hammond or Daum over unused scholarship.  Had we offered I'm sure all of us would have said whaaaaaat. But, those are the type of kids this staff needs to find because I don't see them signing top 100-150 kids every year. Especially now that they are finding it tough to come out with a winning record. Recruiting is only going to get tougher for them. 

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14 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

In fact, I remember discussions about Bradley where uneblinstu said he liked him for his shooting and others quite strongly said he wasn't worthy of anything more than a walk-on spot.

I also believe I was on record saying Khiry Thomas could play at NU. I'm not gonna go dig it up, but I distinctly remember being really impressed with him at the state tournament. I've also been the leader of the "get David Wingett to Lincoln" campaign.

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2 hours ago, Chuck Taylor said:

That's an odd way to look at it: whether the board wants to offer. My question would be does the staff put the effort into evaluating the kids around here? It doesn't seem like it. And I don't place the blame totally on Miles, because when he took the job he probably heard any number of people tell him, "There's no talent in Nebraska." He was stepping up to a big-level program and it was natural that he looked nationally. It's just speculation, but I think he got burned on Patton and Thomas and offered Arop too quickly to save face.

 

My issue is with the recruiting philosophy here. We really haven't signed Nebraska kids since Collier (except Biggs from JC), and yet Nebraska kids have succeeded elsewhere. There are two kids playing right now who are getting mentioned as NBA prospects and I'm not sure the staff had any kind of relationship with either. While I think Brady Heiman could develop into a legit college big man, he only has low offers now and I think it's far more likely that some other P5 "discovers" him. And if I say I would offer, what's that worth other than to earn an up or down arrow?

 

 

Chuck, respectfully, I think you missed my point.

 

Some kids who look great in high school go to college and bust; some kids who were completely overlooked for legitimate reasons (they just weren't all that good) get to college at a lower level and the lightbulb goes on and they blow up.

 

I don't care who the coach is.  You'll always be able to find players that they could have recruited and didn't who end up going somewhere else and doing much better than anyone anticipated they would do.  And, by the same token, you'll always be able to find players they recruited who don't live up to the expectations.  It's just the nature of the beast.  Recruiting is an inexact science.

 

THEREFORE, you can't just tick off a list of players who we didn't recruit who went somewhere else and did well and offer me that list as some sort of proof that (insert name of whichever coach you're trying to attack) blew it in recruiting by not going after said kid.

 

Honestly, the way most fans evaluate recruiting is bullshit because we're doing it based on the benefit of hindsight.  Not only did Miles not offer Daum, but he also didn't offer 50,000 other kids who went on to lower level schools and didn't do shit there.  But we're not talking about those other 50,000 kids who didn't get offers and didn't do shit; we're only talking about the extremely limited numbers of players who either vastly exceeded any reasonable expectations (Daum and Kyri Thomas, for example) or were already known quantities who just chose to take their talents elsewhere in spite of our best recruiting efforts (Agau).

 

I do NOT accept the premise that you get to throw out names of recruits after the fact and wag your finger and say "Why didn't Miles offer?"

 

If you want to play that game, then show me where you or anyone else identified those players as potentially scholarship worthy before they went off to somewhere else and had a good career there.

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58 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

I also believe I was on record saying Khiry Thomas could play at NU. I'm not gonna go dig it up, but I distinctly remember being really impressed with him at the state tournament. I've also been the leader of the "get David Wingett to Lincoln" campaign.

I remember you being a big proponent of Bradley.  And I know you've touted Wingett.  I don't remember you expressing your support of offering Thomas, however.  Not saying you didn't; I just don't remember that, though I remember distinctly reading your support for the other two.

Edited by Norm Peterson

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2 hours ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

And Creighton was in on Patton and Thomas before Nebraska...because????? Had Nebraska offered first would they be wearing red? Who knows..they may still have ended up at Creighton but the fact that the staff simply passed on them or did not identify them as high major talent is a bit concerning.  BTW, I would take any of the above players over Miles not utilizing a scholarship year after year.  Having that 13th scholarship open may come in handy at some point where we sign a mid year transfer but that's looking unlikely again this year. 

 

I know you read the Creighton board, so I'm surprised you seem so naïve and misinformed about the recruitment of Patton and Thomas.

 

Creighton fans had no idea what they had with Thomas until he turned heads on that pre-season Italy trip they had last year.  Prior to that, they were all like "meh" about finding they'd offered and then signed him.  They figured he was probably a bit of a reach.  They were in LOVE, though, with a little point guard from Iowa named ... oh, who cares what his name was because he transferred away after his freshman year because he was a recruiting bust (Marlon Stewart was his name, in case you're interested.)

 

Creighton fans were pretty tepid about Patton, too, until he started blowing up in the recruiting services AFTER he had already committed to Creighton.  Prior to that, he was just a tall skinny kid from North Omaha who was a complete unknown until his AAU coach got in touch with McDermott and told him "you gotta see this kid."  And, within weeks and maybe just days, he was offered and committed.

 

Go look up his junior year high school stats and try to tell me he would have been on your recruiting radar.

 

 

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Found this post from basketballjones in the recruiting forum to be very interesting and topical.  Everybody, right now, place your bets.  Which of these kids are you going to come back 2 years from now and say you told us so?  Speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

Posted · Report post

Went to the game last night.... My initial thought - recruiting evaluation is really hard. Check that - it's really easy at the B1G/ACC/Big East/Pac10/B12 level. Those obvious guys speak for themselves. However, that next group right under them can make or break you as a program. There's guys down in that next tier that have potential to be special and real steals. Those same guys could also end up at an NAIA or a D2 and just be average. 

 

Isaiah Chandler -- My god that young man has improved dramatically since I first started watching him a couple years ago. What a steal by New Mexico. As I watched him run the floor and leap like a gazelle, I found myself asking, "what exactly does Jordy T. do better than this guy outside of just being a couple inches taller?" As far as I can tell, he's a true 6'9", still has baby fat on him, and has dramatically improved his work ethic and toughness. He catches lobs like a pro, has fantastic touch with both hands, good face-up moves from the mid-post, and I was very impressed with his willingness and ability to run out ahead in transition. That's a very tough spot for big dudes - often times they are willing, but not coordinated enough to catch and score when it's kicked ahead to them. Personally, I think UNO/Creighton/Nebraska missed here. This guy is a far better basketball player from a skill perspective than Jordy T. He may not have the same wing span or standing height, but he's far more coordinated, has much better touch, and jumps much, much better. Just my opinion. Hope I am wrong about the Jordy T./Chandler comparison (for NU's sake, anyways). 

 

David Wingett -- Quietly had 40 points last night. Haven't heard anything recently about his grades/transcripts/eligibility/recruiting. Can't make up my mind on this kid. Part of me wants to go all in and say that people should throw their hand in and gamble on him, but who knows. He reminds me so much of Connor Beranek from Ravenna/UNK. Game wise anyways - what I don't know is if the intangibles match with Connor. And that is not an indictment on David, I just literally do not know how they compare from a mental make-up standpoint. But he's got a nice game, and is all of 6'7" with room to grow and add onto his frame. Has tools to use from the rim to the NBA 3pt line. Lefty, too. He doesn't look like he's ever touched a weight in his life - which I do not like, because it really worries me what happens when he's got S&C coaches breathing down his neck all off-season (makes or breaks a lot of kids at the high D1 level). 

 

Roman Behrens -- This is the exact type of kid who I talk about in my opening. You could find a way to make Roman Behrens a part of a big time team. He could also just be an NAIA player. There's really that much variance in what he could be depending on what type of team you have and the needs you have. He is a true point guard. Pass first, great in transition, has the ball on a string, great court vision, fancy finisher, crafty footwork, etc... However, he's also small/skinny, not athletic in a traditional sense (does not play at or above the rim), and I have no idea if he could guard a Big 5 conference guard. He also does not seem overly confident in his 3pt shot (which is not what you want to see from a guy that is limited physically). But I've only seen a couple of games from him. He has serious game - and at some point you have to stop looking at the things he can't do, and really appreciate the things that he can do. Because there are plenty. If you had a really athletic team with a couple other scorers, and needed a dude who could push you in transition and deliver the ball on point and on time, while managing the game - he's your guy. But you'd be taking quite the chance on him from a physical standpoint. I do, however, think he has better skills, basketball IQ, and point guard awareness than a guy like Jalen Bradley from a few years ago - who's doing great at Oral Roberts. 

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15 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I know you read the Creighton board, so I'm surprised you seem so naïve and misinformed about the recruitment of Patton and Thomas.

 

Creighton fans had no idea what they had with Thomas until he turned heads on that pre-season Italy trip they had last year.  Prior to that, they were all like "meh" about finding they'd offered and then signed him.  They figured he was probably a bit of a reach.  They were in LOVE, though, with a little point guard from Iowa named ... oh, who cares what his name was because he transferred away after his freshman year because he was a recruiting bust (Marlon Stewart was his name, in case you're interested.)

 

Creighton fans were pretty tepid about Patton, too, until he started blowing up in the recruiting services AFTER he had already committed to Creighton.  Prior to that, he was just a tall skinny kid from North Omaha who was a complete unknown until his AAU coach got in touch with McDermott and told him "you gotta see this kid."  And, within weeks and maybe just days, he was offered and committed.

 

Go look up his junior year high school stats and try to tell me he would have been on your recruiting radar.

 

 

I would be very surprised if that was how Creighton fans viewed both Thomas and Patton.  Maybe initially.  But I work and am friends with a few Creighton fans and I don't remember that being the case...atleast in their minds.    Even then, why do Creighton fans opinion on recruits matter?  How does it come into play that we flat out missed on two recruits 50 miles away?  One at a position that at the time we were searching for a big man in every corner of the world.  This of course would be a non issue if we weren't looking at another 12-13 win season.  I don't think most of us really care where the talent comes from as long as we have talent.  But, the fact that we are still short on talent(along with an open scholarship, again) and instate prospects are prospering elsewhere makes it a tough pill to swallow.   

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