Updates

[seaofred92]

half of this should go in the recruiting section and half shouldn't so im just posting it here.

 

to summarize the BR chat today he basically said the following

 

 

He thinks there will definitely be roster turnover next year, although he didn't give any specific names.

 

He agreed with my point about Benny being overmatched in B1G play. 

 

Said he's baffled as to why Sergej doesn't play at least a little bit. I asked about if he thought he couldve helped against the 7 footer last night and he said he thought he should've played a little. 

 

Said the reason they haven't offered Kevin Thomas is because they're making sure he's an "all around fit for the program". He did say he'd expect Thomas to take an official visit here.

 

Said he could see Petteway as a 3 or a 4 next year. Personally, I'd like to have Kevin Thomas at the 3 and Petteway at the 4.

 

 

[tcp]

Thanks for the recap. BC not going out on a limb, which is fine. I think Parker's trying to catch up to the speed of the game, and I'm not writing him off yet. I don't know how Sergej returns if he can't even sniff the court this season, unless there's something we don't know about, which is a nagging and understandable suspicion. "Strength" just doesn't cut it for me.

[Norm Peterson]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

[tcp]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

 

Yes, this is the official explanation. It's just not taking with me. We stick in bodies that aren't "ready" and aren't going to help us win directly all the time. But it's entirely possible that I'm just hung up on the lack of big bodies and I hate to see one sitting right there doing nothing.

[Ron Mexico]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

 

Yes, this is the official explanation. It's just not taking with me. We stick in bodies that aren't "ready" and aren't going to help us win directly all the time. But it's entirely possible that I'm just hung up on the lack of big bodies and I hate to see one sitting right there doing nothing.

As opposed to doing nothing on the court.

[Norm Peterson]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

 

Yes, this is the official explanation. It's just not taking with me. We stick in bodies that aren't "ready" and aren't going to help us win directly all the time. But it's entirely possible that I'm just hung up on the lack of big bodies and I hate to see one sitting right there doing nothing.

I don't think we have been.  There's a reason Jordan Tyrance played last night (and scored 10 pts) and Trevor Menke basically rode the bench all night even though we have a severely short roster.  Trevor isn't going to make us better.  He's not better than a fatigued Ray Gallegos or a fatigued Dylan Talley who can't find his shot.  Right now, Sergej isn't better than David Rivers.  We're putting the guys on the floor who give us a chance to win and I suspect the coaching staff feels that, at this point in time, Sergej doesn't do that.

[ajb5856]

I understand everyone trying to figure out why Sergej isn't playing. I tend to agree with the idea that he isn't playing because he's not ready, wouldn't help the team right now, and as long as we are trying to win and Miles feels we have a chance, he won't be in there. In fact, why shouldn't Kye Kurkowski play in front of Sergej at this point? Game experience is valuable, but its not like playing a minute or two against Purdue is worth a bunch more than competing against his teammates everyday in practice.

[NUdiehard]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

 

Yes, this is the official explanation. It's just not taking with me. We stick in bodies that aren't "ready" and aren't going to help us win directly all the time. But it's entirely possible that I'm just hung up on the lack of big bodies and I hate to see one sitting right there doing nothing.

I don't think we have been.  There's a reason Jordan Tyrance played last night (and scored 10 pts) and Trevor Menke basically rode the bench all night even though we have a severely short roster.  Trevor isn't going to make us better.  He's not better than a fatigued Ray Gallegos or a fatigued Dylan Talley who can't find his shot.  Right now, Sergej isn't better than David Rivers.  We're putting the guys on the floor who give us a chance to win and I suspect the coaching staff feels that, at this point in time, Sergej doesn't do that.

Its not a huge deal to me either way, so I don't want this to be interpreted as a slight on Miles.  However, there is a fundamental flaw in this reasoning that just can't be ignored:

 

1.  Miles subordinated this season to the future when he allowed Biggs to redshirt.  He knew full well that we had only 8 scholarship guys, including Vooch and BP, with no legit PG, yet he allowed Biggs to RS.  That decision sealed the fate of this year's team and we all know it.  Remember, Miles has a history of this.  His CSU team had a terrible record his first year and he built it up from there.  Despite what he says about winning this year, that is not his main goal.  In fact, if he truly was concerned about this year, he would have played Biggs and signed a couple jucos after being hired in April.  He didn't do that b/c this year is not he priority. 

 

2.  If Vooch is sooooo unready to play due to his strength, this should have been abundantly obvious before the season started.  Miles had to know that Vooch was not going to put on 30 lbs of muscle during the season.  In fact, Miles has acknowledged this himself.  Sooo, that begs the question, why put him in for 1 minute in a completely meaningless non-conf game, thus sealing his fate as far as a RS season is concerned?  Miles either botched that one up, or he has an agenda (ie, leave Vooch with a RS year to transfer--which may be what tcp is getting at).  No matter how people try to spin it, there really isn't another explanation IMO.

 

3.  Even if he played him for 1 minute on purpose, that decision could be subject to scrutiny.  Scholarships are 1 year contracts, so Miles could cut him loose at any time if he wanted even if he had redshirted him this season.  Thus, the more logical course would seem to be to RS him and then decide whether he can help us in the future or not.  If he progresses enough to give Miles hope, then all is well b/c he can stick around and has 4 years of eligibility remaining.  If he does not develop, then he can transfer and will still be in the same position as he is now--he will have to sit out a year and then have 3 years eligibility with his new team.  Nothing lost to him or Miles.

[Silverbacked1]

Think that Miles thought he would "come along" as the season wore on so he played some early.

 

2min. but did play early.  Now he hasn't "progressed" like the staff had hoped and unfortunately he has a burned redshirt because of it.

 

Kind of a big OOOPS.

[MandRHusker]

Could they also be saving the redshirt in case he has to/decides to transfer?

[Norm Peterson]

NUdiehard, that is an interesting perspective.  However, your point -- that redshirting Biggs proves that Miles considered this a throw-away year -- assumes something about Biggs that might not be true.  It could be that Miles redshirted Biggs because he just didn't think Biggs was ready to play.  And, face it, when it comes to bodies, we have more guards than we have bigs, so you might have redshirted a guard more readily than a big and that wouldn't necessarily compel the conclusion that Miles wasn't going to try to win this year. 

 

At the time the decision to redshirt Biggs was made, we had Beep to handle point duties and Peltz able to back him up.  We also had Gallegos and Talley who could potentially step into the role.  My understanding of Biggs was that he was having some trouble with manning the point duties through fall practice and that, frankly, Trevor Menke was looking like a more viable option.  So, the fact that Biggs sat while Vooch played doesn't necessarily prove that Miles gave up on this season before it even started, which is what you're trying to argue.

 

The team this year has 3 eligible guys taller than 6'7".  When you lack size, it might make sense to try to play a 7 foot kid who isn't quite ready, hoping that he picks things up as the season goes along, even while you redshirt a point guard.  But, if the big kid who played doesn't come along as the coach hoped, should the coach feel compelled to continue playing a guy who isn't going to help win games now?  I think not.

 

Personally, NUdiehard, I would have a very hard time accusing Tim Miles of deliberately throwing this season away.  But you're not just accusing him of that.  You're also essentially accusing him of deciding in November to get rid of Vooch by playing him 1 minute in an early season game and then sitting him basically the rest of the season so that the kid feels compelled to leave.

 

Those are a couple of pretty weighty accusations, quite frankly, that I'd not toss around so cavalierly.

[tcp]

let me add to norm's last comment that I personally don't see any nefariousness to what Miles is doing with Vooch. He has his reasons, and maybe it's even the one he says it is and I just happen to find my way into a position of minor disagreement.

 

I happen to think there's plus value in spelling regular players, especially guys like Almeida. No, he might not help us win the game directly, but he might by allowing someone else to help win the game.

 

I do know our team is almost always tired at the end of games, and to me, that says that the value of getting a breather on the bench might be higher than the value of not playing a guy who might cost you a few points in a few minutes.

[Norm Peterson]

NUdiehard, something for you to remember about who was where with point guard development at the time the Biggs redshirt was decided is that Beep was here for the summer coaching that was allowed per NCAA rules for the first time this past summer.  Menke was also here.  Biggs was not.  Those two guys had an edge over Biggs in acclimating to Miles' system and being ready and looking the part during fall camp.  I think that you need to realize that Biggs might just have been behind the learning curve when it was decided he should redshirt.  And his performance in the exhibition showed me that, at least in that game, he's no more of a threat to hit the perimeter jumper than Beep or Peltz.

 

Vooch, in turn, has shown that he's not a total stiff.  And I can certainly see that Miles would decide the potential for him being able to contribute to this team this year justified taking the chance of playing him.  And perhaps the development that Miles was hoping for hasn't come to fruition.  But you don't base coaching decisions on 20/20 hindsight.

 

Again, I'd be very uncomfortable accusing Miles of what you've basically accused him of, which is that he decided to throw this season away when he redshirted Biggs AND he decided to get rid of Vooch when he played him for 1 minute in 2 games in November.

[HB]

NUdiehard, something for you to remember about who was where with point guard development at the time the Biggs redshirt was decided is that Beep was here for the summer coaching that was allowed per NCAA rules for the first time this past summer.  Menke was also here.  Biggs was not.  Those two guys had an edge over Biggs in acclimating to Miles' system and being ready and looking the part during fall camp.  I think that you need to realize that Biggs might just have been behind the learning curve when it was decided he should redshirt.  And his performance in the exhibition showed me that, at least in that game, he's no more of a threat to hit the perimeter jumper than Beep or Peltz.

 

Vooch, in turn, has shown that he's not a total stiff.  And I can certainly see that Miles would decide the potential for him being able to contribute to this team this year justified taking the chance of playing him.  And perhaps the development that Miles was hoping for hasn't come to fruition.  But you don't base coaching decisions on 20/20 hindsight.

 

Again, I'd be very uncomfortable accusing Miles of what you've basically accused him of, which is that he decided to throw this season away when he redshirted Biggs AND he decided to get rid of Vooch when he played him for 1 minute in 2 games in November.

 

It could also be for a more laudable reason--living up to a promise.  Could be that Biggs wanted to redshirt, and Miles promised him he could when he recruited him.  In Barfnecht's lunch chat earlier this week (perhaps someone can link), he fielded a Vooch question,  and basically said "those Euros demand to play and aren't  looking to redshirt."  Who knows if that is even close to the mark, but the point is, none of us know what's involved with all that is going on.  With Vooch, clearly something is happening with practice which is causing Miles to not award playing time to Vooch at this point, and also is causing him to conclude he isn't ready right now to help us win.  He'll play again at garbage time, I suspect. 

[FredsSlacks]

Miles said many times that he wanted Biggs to play this year, but Miles was willing to honor Biggs's choice to redshirt.

[Norm Peterson]

Miles said many times that he wanted Biggs to play this year, but Miles was willing to honor Biggs's choice to redshirt.

Well, there ya go.

[FredsSlacks]

Best case scenario for NU's future in my opinion:

 

-Sign Atewe and Kevin Thomas in the next month and a half.

 

-Sergej and Parker transfer at end of season.

 

-3 scholarships open for 2014.

[Silverbacked1]

Oh Tim if was just that easy.

[NUdiehard]

Whoa Norm, I think you are reading a little too much into my post.

 

First, I am not accusing Miles of doing anything inappropriate.  I was fully aware that Biggs wanted to RS.  That is why I phrased my first point as Miles "allowing Biggs to RS."  And one of the reasons Biggs wanted to RS is b/c he knew that this year would be rough and the next 2 years would give him a better chance to play on a better team.  And I am not only OK with Miles allowing him to RS, I think it is a good thing and a good decision--a very good decision.  Not only is it OK for TM to subordinate this season for the future, it is exactly what he should do!  TM needs to have a long term plan on how to get us to a sustained high level.  He has been hired into a cesspool and his #1 job build this into a viable program, not just win a few more games this year.  Of course he won't say that now, b/c that would be difficult for the Srs. to hear, but we all know it is the truth.  Heck I'm sure the players know it too.  Even if TM made a promise to Biggs, well, that doesn't really change anything.  As soon as TM made that promise, he subordinated this year to the future, so it is the same thing.  Let me ask you, can you imagine Bo P recruiting a defensive tackle this year and that DT telling Bo he will only commit if he can RS?  I can only imagine the door shutting behind Bo's back.  Especially if the DT was just an average recruit.  Oh, and if you are suggesting that TM felt that Menke was a better option at the beginning of the season, well, I won't even go there.

 

As for Vooch, I was just exploring possible motives behind his decision.  I didn't choose any particular one.  I am just saying that if it was an issue of strength, that would have been just as obvious at the beginning of the season as it is now.  And if it is a concern about his strength, then why play him for one minute in a meaningless non-conf. game?  No one has answered that.  Did that one minute answer the question?  Did it make him a better player?  Did it help him for next year?  Why not just wait a little longer before putting him in the game and if he continued to show that he was not physical enough, then don't play him and reserve the RS. And simply saying that Vooch "wanted to play" is not really an answer.  TM is the HC.  If Vooch isn't ready, the HC decides he is not ready. This is done in FB all the time, and in BB as well. And besides, Vooch isn't playing, so you can't say he did it to honor Vooch's desire to play right away.  He's not playing, he's sitting on the bench.  In regards to the other option, that he intentionally played Vooch, I will note that M&R suggested the exact same possible motive that you seem to want to excoriate me for suggesting right after I did.  Personally, I don't have a problem if TM did play Vooch intentionally for that reason.  I am not sure if he did or didn't, but I don't really care if he did.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

This isn't a big deal to me at all, and I certainly am not trying to impugn illegitimate motives to TM.  So far, I think TM is doing almost everything right and I am excited about the future.  I hope he continues to make decision that are in the interest of the program long term.

[FredsSlacks]

Oh Tim if was just that easy.

It's a possible scenario though.

[hhcmatt]

-Sergej and Parker transfer at end of season.

 

If anyone is going to transfer it would make sense for Surge or Parker because of their current roles.

 

However, I hate it when fans here completely give up on a player after their first year like it's impossible for them to become better over time.  So when I see people dust off the Ray Gallegos torch and pitchforks from the last two years at Parker and Surge it simply baffles me.

[leonidas]

NUdiehard, something for you to remember about who was where with point guard development at the time the Biggs redshirt was decided is that Beep was here for the summer coaching that was allowed per NCAA rules for the first time this past summer.  Menke was also here.  Biggs was not.  Those two guys had an edge over Biggs in acclimating to Miles' system and being ready and looking the part during fall camp.  I think that you need to realize that Biggs might just have been behind the learning curve when it was decided he should redshirt.  And his performance in the exhibition showed me that, at least in that game, he's no more of a threat to hit the perimeter jumper than Beep or Peltz.

 

Vooch, in turn, has shown that he's not a total stiff.  And I can certainly see that Miles would decide the potential for him being able to contribute to this team this year justified taking the chance of playing him.  And perhaps the development that Miles was hoping for hasn't come to fruition.  But you don't base coaching decisions on 20/20 hindsight.

 

Again, I'd be very uncomfortable accusing Miles of what you've basically accused him of, which is that he decided to throw this season away when he redshirted Biggs AND he decided to get rid of Vooch when he played him for 1 minute in 2 games in November.

 

In the days leading up to Biggs' official determination to redshirt, the vibe I got from articles/tweets/online chats was that it was completely Biggs' decision.  In fact, it almost seemed like Miles wanted him to play but he was honoring his promise to Biggs that he'd let Biggs decide.

[49r]

-Sergej and Parker transfer at end of season.

 

If anyone is going to transfer it would make sense for Surge or Parker because of their current roles.

 

However, I hate it when fans here completely give up on a player after their first year like it's impossible for them to become better over time.  So when I see people dust off the Ray Gallegos torch and pitchforks from the last two years at Parker and Surge it simply baffles me.

 

This.  It wasn't all that long ago that we were talking about Gallegos as if he was a complete bust and would never see the floor at Nebraska.

 

Fast forward to this year and he's now the season leader for player of the game awards on Dave's report cards.  By a lot.

[Silverbacked1]

dimes I'm out of my quota of positive votes so I will get back to you tomorrow,

 

But this what I feel like too.  Let the kid(s) grow and we can see if it works out.

 

Besides we can't do any thing about it any way.

[Cookie Belcher]

Sergej, right now, doesn't give us a better chance to win.  It's not about getting the kid experience if we can get the team a win.  And until it's time to throw in the towell and concede defeat (which we were close to doing, probably, and likely would have if the deficit had gotten much deeper) Sergej probably isn't going to see the floor.  I suspect that, for the rest of this season, Sergej will not play as long as the outcome remains in doubt.

 

Yes, this is the official explanation. It's just not taking with me. We stick in bodies that aren't "ready" and aren't going to help us win directly all the time. But it's entirely possible that I'm just hung up on the lack of big bodies and I hate to see one sitting right there doing nothing.

Maybe he is that bad.  That's what I assume.